I think I may be the "refinery rat" you seek. I'll try on the question.
Shoot!
Mark in Texas
On 11/2/2011 9:57 AM, ygmir111 wrote:
> Doug:
> can I ask a sort of off topic question, you being a refinery rat, as such,
> regarding naphtha?
>
> Henry
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark Atkins"<mratkins@embarqmail.com>
> To:<diesel_mercedes@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2011 7:51 AM
> Subject: [diesel_mercedes] diesel why the cost, don't blame the tree huggers
> tho,, Ca. started all this with CARB
>
>
>> Doug,
>>
>> As a thirty year veteran of being a refinery rat I must make a couple of
>> points, here.
>>
>> The "hydrotreating" process is essentially the SAME for naphtha stocks,
>> kerosene, and Diesel fuels. This is accomplished by heating the stocks
>> (at relatively lower temperatures), and passing through a cobalt (sic)
>> based catalyst in the presence of hydrogen to convert and remove the
>> sulfur compounds. My point here is that ALL of these components must be
>> hydrotreated in order to render them useful as fuels.
>>
>> In order to make blend stocks for gasoline naphtha, and all other
>> components, must first be separated from the crude oil charge stock,
>> sulfur compounds removed by hydrotreating, and then reprocessed in a
>> "reformer" type of refining process into a more suitable material of a
>> higher "octane" number. This process uses MUCH higher temperatures and,
>> usually, a platinum catalyst. Therefore, manufacturing "gasoline" is a
>> much more costly process than manufacturing Diesel fuels as the Diesel
>> is "straight run" from the crude still and simply hydrotreated while
>> gasoline must be further processed after hydrotreating.
>>
>> Also, as you know, the sulfur compounds that remained in the Diesel
>> fuels added lubricity to the fuel which is now largely gone due to the
>> lower sulfur specs. That is why many add ATF, MMO, or other light oils
>> to today's Diesel fuels in order to lubricate the injector pump
>> internals. Tolerances in these pumps are insanely small and it does not
>> take much lubrication starvation to trash one fairly quickly.
>>
>> I will agree that the sulfur mountains are a nuisance but that is the
>> "cost" of being "green". It is a storage expense, only, for the most
>> part. As for the fuel costs, Diesel should STILL be cheaper than
>> gasoline and the disparity in prices occurred BEFORE the ULSD standard
>> came along! Truth is, big oil knows that truckers use LOTS of fuel, must
>> have it to move, and there is an increasing number of Diesel powered
>> commuter vehicles being produced, so they want a BIG(est) slice of the
>> "pie". Commodity traders are raking in their hogs share as well in crude
>> stocks AND finished product prices! In a word, WE are being ripped off
>> by ALL of them!
>>
>> There are answers to ALL of these "questions" and one must look no
>> further than big oil AND government regulations to find ALL the answers.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>> On 11/2/2011 5:29 AM, Doug wrote:
>>> * Here is a large part of the answer as too why Diesel Fuel is so
>>> much more expensive than gasoline,, we have small mountains of sulfur
>>> along the ship channel here in Houston area, as per the EPA, they have
>>> to refine almost all the sulfur from the Diesel fuel,too make ultra
>>> low sulfur fuels,,thats very expensive, an then someone has too store
>>> all that huge amount of sulfur, thats very expensive, too much of it,
>>> an nothing its good for either. So, NOW we pay at the pump.*
>>> **
>>> * Back in the good old days of cheap Diesel fuel, all that sulfur
>>> went out the tailpipe as pollution, an eventually acid rain an such,,,
>>> you guys from California should remember, an know that clean air costs
>>> us all money,, ya do remember CARB right, well its all over Texas too
>>> now, we pay about 50 cents a gallon of Diesel for cleaner air, which
>>> is rare around Houston..*
>>> **
>>> * My concern, being a long time Diesel Tech /Instructor, is what is
>>> the long term effect upon my darling 300d s fuel system, an pistons,
>>> maybe valves. Will my like new running engine still last forever with
>>> the ultra low sulfur or not,, thats a good question. *
>>> **
>>> * So bottom line, now we are having too pay a lot extra for the ultra
>>> low sulfur Diesel fuel, is it worth the cost, in cancer rate, an are
>>> we loosing part of the energy in the fuel at the same time. Our
>>> exhaust systems should last longer, without all the sulfuric acid
>>> coming thu. *
>>> **
>>> * Lots of unanswered questions other than the premium cost we are
>>> having to pay at the pump. I do not think there are answers to many of
>>> the questions, but one thing for sure, our Mercedes engines were
>>> designed to run on Diesel fuel that contained mucho sulfur, a type
>>> fuel no longer available, except in maybe Mexico. *
>>> * Anyone want about a million tons of raw sulfur, Texas will sell
>>> it to you CHEAP, almost free, come get the stuff, makes an ugly
>>> mountain here in Texas. Plus it stinks like someone eating too much
>>> bean dip. *
>>> * Doug Traylor 300d daily driver, 300SD carport parts queen w/
>>> wunderbar turbo engine. *
>>>
>
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