Re: [diesel_mercedes] Re: Voltage on 71 220D

 

Thank you for taking the time to do this. I have tightened the fan belt because it seemed a little bit loose and have a little bit better charging as a result. But I just put the new fan belt I'm so I didn't think that it would need to be tightened it soon its only been on for a couple of weeks.

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From: Tom Visel <five10man@gmail.com>;
To: diesel_mercedes@yahoogroups.com <diesel_mercedes@yahoogroups.com>;
Subject: [diesel_mercedes] Re: Voltage on 71 220D
Sent: Sun, Dec 1, 2013 6:41:08 PM

 

Short version: your charging system is undercharging. Also, your battery may be bad (have it
tested!) or it may simply be low on charge.

Long version:
Ideal charging voltage is 13.6 to 14.4. A fully charged lead-acid battery with no load on it will read 12.66V, so anything below this is discharged to some degree. If you read 12.3 at rest, your battery is discharged OR may be bad.

If it helps, you might think of electricity as water, your battery as a bucket, and your alternator as a spigot trying to fill the bucket. Your loads (fan, lights, radio, defroster, starter) are all holes in the bucket that are trying to empty it. The starter takes a big gulp, and then for the next few minutes after you've started the alternator is trying to replace that used energy.
In this analogy, your water level (battery resting voltage or state of charge) is only going to be maintained (or catch up) if the spigot can keep up with the drains. If you have a problem between the spigot and bucket - e.g. Bad battery cables or a skinny charging wire - the bucket will not refill quickly enough to maintain. If your bucket is inherently bad - it loses water or is too small - then the spigot becomes critical. If your spigot can't produce as fast as the loads are drawing on the bucket, then the level in the bucket falls. In your case, it fell to 12.3 volts and there wasn't enough left in the bucket to handle the starter's load.

Since I don't have access to your car, I can't say anything about your specific situation besides the charging voltage is low and your battery became discharged. You should (in this order):

1. Have the battery and alternator tested by a real alternator repair shop or auto electric shop - they will know better than a parts store flunkie if you have an external regulator gone bad, for instance.
2. Replace whichever of those two needs replacement, and BEFORE YOU FIRE IT UP--
3. Fully charge the battery. If you don't, you will let the expensive smoke out of the alternator.
4. This is important for longevity, and it may catch a problem that could kill your new alternator or battery in short order. Start it, and turn on all the electrical accessories. Then hold the revs about 1500-2000 after the glow plugs have finished cycling. Take a voltmeter and perform two tests to tell you if your cables are OK: + probe to output terminal of alternator, - terminal to battery positive (right on the stud) and then + probe to battery negative, - probe to alternator case (scrape to get a good connection.) If you switch +and -, the readings will be negative but no harm will be done.
5. If either of the two readings in step 4 were greater than 0.5V, you have a voltage drop in your wiring that will kill your alternator and eventually your starter. If the first reading failed, check your positive cable, its end at the battery, and the big wire coming off of the alternator. If the second reading failed, check the negative cable and it's end at the battery. If the car has emergency replacement cheesy p.o.s. clamp-to-the-cable style ends where the battery meets the cables, ditch them and get real battery cables of at least 1 gauge thickness if not better. Your car will thank you by starting reliably and not eating its alternator, battery, and starter.

Last thing: between the hole in your car and the hole in your wallet, always fit the biggest battery you can manage. Like a bigger bucket in the earlier analogy, it has further to go before it is drained, and the same size load placed on it (vs. a smaller battery) will make its voltage not fall as far. I live this advice - my 83 Toyota diesel pickup has a battery from an over-the-road truck - group 31 - and I have fitted a Delco AD244 alternator from a newer GMC pickup so I can have 135 amps at my beck and call. It starts immediately even in freezing weather, and my lights don't dim nor fan slow down at idle.

Hope this helps!
TomV
Former auto electric shop proprietor and master tech

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[diesel_mercedes] Re: 1979 300SD

 

Hello Bud, welcome to the group. Take time to learn your machine. There are many on line resources too. Just google 1980 (+/-) Mercedes and look at what pops up. These cars are fun to play with and will probably outlast you. There will be a lot of 30 year old "fix-its" to take care of but that is half the fun of owning one.

brian from laverne

--- In diesel_mercedes@yahoogroups.com, Bud S <budski252@...> wrote:
>
> Just wanted to introduce myself to the group.  I picked up a 1979 300SD during the summer and have been doing minor repairs to get her on the road.
>
> It's been a week since I've been driving it and have been adjusting to driving a land yacht again.  I haven't driven an automatic in over 20 years and from what I can remember this is the smoothest shifting car I've driven.
>
> Have gone through about a half tank of diesel, so not sure of what mpg yet.
>
> Trying to read through a lot of topics on this car just to figure out how everything works.
>
>
> Bud
> http://www.rhinocat.com/cvaf4u/
>

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Re: RE: [diesel_mercedes] Voltage on 71 220D

 

Great, I always heard I need14volts so I thought I would ask.

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From: corvallis@peoplepc.com <corvallis@peoplepc.com>;
To: <diesel_mercedes@yahoogroups.com>;
Subject: RE: [diesel_mercedes] Voltage on 71 220D
Sent: Sun, Dec 1, 2013 2:10:49 PM

 

13.5-volts is a fine charging output for a 12-volt battery system.  I don't understand the second part about Starts.  Bill


From: diesel_mercedes@yahoogroups.com [mailto: diesel_mercedes@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of attymw@yahoo.com
Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2013 3:54 AM
To: diesel_mercedes@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [diesel_mercedes] Voltage on 71 220D

 

Does anyone know what I should get from the alternator?  R ight now when cruising under load I am getting around 13.5.

I have had no starts but should that happen when the battery is at 12.3?

Thanks you guys are great.

Mike

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Re: [diesel_mercedes] Voltage on 71 220D

 


Thanks. Not sure why it was low maybe because I tried too many times to start it.
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From: Stan George <ssgkag@frontier.com>;
To: <diesel_mercedes@yahoogroups.com>;
Subject: Re: [diesel_mercedes] Voltage on 71 220D
Sent: Sun, Dec 1, 2013 5:22:39 PM

 

12.3 volts is only a 75 % charge.

Percent Hydrometer Unloaded
charge reading voltage
100 1.265 12.63
75 1.210 12.30
50 1.160 12.00
25 1.120 11.76
0 1.100 11.64
--
Stan George Portland <<

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[diesel_mercedes] Re: Voltage on 71 220D

 

Short version: your charging system is undercharging. Also, your battery may be bad (have it
tested!) or it may simply be low on charge.

Long version:
Ideal charging voltage is 13.6 to 14.4. A fully charged lead-acid battery with no load on it will read 12.66V, so anything below this is discharged to some degree. If you read 12.3 at rest, your battery is discharged OR may be bad.

If it helps, you might think of electricity as water, your battery as a bucket, and your alternator as a spigot trying to fill the bucket. Your loads (fan, lights, radio, defroster, starter) are all holes in the bucket that are trying to empty it. The starter takes a big gulp, and then for the next few minutes after you've started the alternator is trying to replace that used energy.
In this analogy, your water level (battery resting voltage or state of charge) is only going to be maintained (or catch up) if the spigot can keep up with the drains. If you have a problem between the spigot and bucket - e.g. Bad battery cables or a skinny charging wire - the bucket will not refill quickly enough to maintain. If your bucket is inherently bad - it loses water or is too small - then the spigot becomes critical. If your spigot can't produce as fast as the loads are drawing on the bucket, then the level in the bucket falls. In your case, it fell to 12.3 volts and there wasn't enough left in the bucket to handle the starter's load.

Since I don't have access to your car, I can't say anything about your specific situation besides the charging voltage is low and your battery became discharged. You should (in this order):

1. Have the battery and alternator tested by a real alternator repair shop or auto electric shop - they will know better than a parts store flunkie if you have an external regulator gone bad, for instance.
2. Replace whichever of those two needs replacement, and BEFORE YOU FIRE IT UP--
3. Fully charge the battery. If you don't, you will let the expensive smoke out of the alternator.
4. This is important for longevity, and it may catch a problem that could kill your new alternator or battery in short order. Start it, and turn on all the electrical accessories. Then hold the revs about 1500-2000 after the glow plugs have finished cycling. Take a voltmeter and perform two tests to tell you if your cables are OK: + probe to output terminal of alternator, - terminal to battery positive (right on the stud) and then + probe to battery negative, - probe to alternator case (scrape to get a good connection.) If you switch +and -, the readings will be negative but no harm will be done.
5. If either of the two readings in step 4 were greater than 0.5V, you have a voltage drop in your wiring that will kill your alternator and eventually your starter. If the first reading failed, check your positive cable, its end at the battery, and the big wire coming off of the alternator. If the second reading failed, check the negative cable and it's end at the battery. If the car has emergency replacement cheesy p.o.s. clamp-to-the-cable style ends where the battery meets the cables, ditch them and get real battery cables of at least 1 gauge thickness if not better. Your car will thank you by starting reliably and not eating its alternator, battery, and starter.

Last thing: between the hole in your car and the hole in your wallet, always fit the biggest battery you can manage. Like a bigger bucket in the earlier analogy, it has further to go before it is drained, and the same size load placed on it (vs. a smaller battery) will make its voltage not fall as far. I live this advice - my 83 Toyota diesel pickup has a battery from an over-the-road truck - group 31 - and I have fitted a Delco AD244 alternator from a newer GMC pickup so I can have 135 amps at my beck and call. It starts immediately even in freezing weather, and my lights don't dim nor fan slow down at idle.

Hope this helps!
TomV
Former auto electric shop proprietor and master tech

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RE: [diesel_mercedes] 1979 300SD

 

Welcome to the group. Bill in Corvallis, Oregon (where it’s raining)

 


From: diesel_mercedes@yahoogroups.com [mailto:diesel_mercedes@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bud S
Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2013 8:55 AM
To: diesel_mercedes@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [diesel_mercedes] 1979 300SD

 

Just wanted to introduce myself to the group.  I picked up a 1979 300SD during the summer and have been doing minor repairs to get her on the road.

It's been a week since I've been driving it and have been adjusting to driving a land yacht again.  I haven't driven an automatic in over 20 years and from what I can remember this is the smoothest shifting car I've driven.

Have gone through about a half tank of diesel, so not sure of what mpg yet.

Trying to read through a lot of topics on this car just to figure out how everything works.

 

Bud

http://www.rhinocat.com/cvaf4u/

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Re: [diesel_mercedes] Voltage on 71 220D

 

12.3 volts is only a 75 % charge.

Percent Hydrometer Unloaded
charge reading voltage
100 1.265 12.63
75 1.210 12.30
50 1.160 12.00
25 1.120 11.76
0 1.100 11.64
--
Stan George Portland <<

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[diesel_mercedes] 1979 300SD

 

Just wanted to introduce myself to the group.  I picked up a 1979 300SD during the summer and have been doing minor repairs to get her on the road.

It's been a week since I've been driving it and have been adjusting to driving a land yacht again.  I haven't driven an automatic in over 20 years and from what I can remember this is the smoothest shifting car I've driven.

Have gone through about a half tank of diesel, so not sure of what mpg yet.

Trying to read through a lot of topics on this car just to figure out how everything works.

Bud
http://www.rhinocat.com/cvaf4u/

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Re: [diesel_mercedes] Electric Windows

 

There's a window relay behind the instrument cluster, according to MB electrical trouble shooting manual, as well as 2 fuses: 1 hot all the time, other hot on start/run.

Rob
Garden Grove, CA



On 11/30/13, 3:33 AM, diesel_mercedes@yahoogroups.com wrote:
Electric Windows      Posted by:  vwnate1@yahoo.com vwnate1      Date: Fri Nov 29, 2013 6:50 am ((PST))               O.K. that's good ;        It still seems to me there's a power relay and the window power doesn't go directly from the Ign. switch .        There should be a cardboard inside the fuse box lid that details which fuse powers the windows ~ test that with your test light _before_ you touch the fuses ~ I can't tell you how oftn I find bad connections on the fuse box when the owner insists all is well .        Then you'll have to trace the power source from the fuse box , the wires are all color coded , prolly black with a colored stripe .        The wire you're looking for should have the same color stripe at the switch , that *one* wire where , if you apply power , all the windows work normally .        I wish I was more help than this ,electrical is always slow , deliberate work but very rewarding once you figure out where the open circuit is .        FWIW , the Performance Parts catalog shows what relay does what and where it's located , usually on the left front inner fender housing .        -Nate         Kevin Wrote:     Nate,   I already replaced all of the fuses with the good copper ones and cleaned all the contact points.   Kevin                 

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RE: [diesel_mercedes] Voltage on 71 220D

 

13.5-volts is a fine charging output for a 12-volt battery system.  I don’t understand the second part about Starts.  Bill


From: diesel_mercedes@yahoogroups.com [mailto:diesel_mercedes@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of attymw@yahoo.com
Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2013 3:54 AM
To: diesel_mercedes@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [diesel_mercedes] Voltage on 71 220D

 

Does anyone know what I should get from the alternator?  Right now when cruising under load I am getting around 13.5.

I have had no starts but should that happen when the battery is at 12.3?

Thanks you guys are great.

Mike

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[diesel_mercedes] Voltage on 71 220D

 

Does anyone know what I should get from the alternator?  Right now when cruising under load I am getting around 13.5.

I have had no starts but should that happen when the battery is at 12.3?

Thanks you guys are great.

Mike

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