[diesel_mercedes] Re: water pump w126

 

yes I did the citric acid flush. The system has been flushed twice with citric acid, and before that just with water. I believe that if it were just a build up issue, it would be improved by the citric flush. I will keep you all informed as to the results.
Chuck
84 300sd


--- In diesel_mercedes@yahoogroups.com, audiolaw@... wrote:
>
> Chuck,
>
> Was it last week or the week before that you were worrying about over
> heating, and a bunch of folks said: DO A CITRIC ACID FLUSH.
>
> Then you came back with the water pump concern.
>
> Did you do the citric acid flush? If not, then changing the water
> pump, or the radiator may very well NOT solve your problem. If the coolant
> isn't able to fully flush through the block because of schmutz build up, that
> issue is going to remain for all time.
>
> Flushing the system can be messy and time consuming. But it is WAY
> cheaper than throwing new parts, and the mechanic's time involved at the
> problem.
>
> Tom
>
>
>
> In a message dated 7/9/2012 1:13:29 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
> jcrcpa@... writes:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks Mark, this explanation fits with all the facts of my overheating
> car. I think I will have the mechanic replace the water pump, and then if
> necessary, replace the radiator.
>
> Chuck
> 84300sd
>
> --- In _diesel_mercedes@yahoogroups.com_
> (mailto:diesel_mercedes@yahoogroups.com) , "Mark in Lakewood, CO" <beeser750@> wrote:
> >
> > Hmm.... Just because a water pump is turning and not leaking doesn't
> necessarily mean it's good. The first diesel I ever drove was a '74 240D that
> belonged to a friend of mine in Arcardia, CA. When I came out to visit him,
> and asked him why he wasn't driving the 'Benz, he said it kept running too
> hot. He'd replaced the thermostat, had the radiator rodded out, and
> flushed the block. Still, it ran hot. I noticed a small leak coming from the
> water pump area, though not from the weep hole, so, I removed the water pump,
> and found that the aluminum pump housing had so much internal corrosion,
> that the machined part that the pump impeller rides up against (not quite
> touching, but, almost) was completely gone. The pump wasn 't pushing the
> coolant around, but merely stirring it in the housing. In fact, the corrosion had
> made the housing wall so thin there was a pinhole leak. Pump itself was
> fine, but we replaced the housing, and the hot running was gone.
> >
> >
> >
> > (This was a Southern California car, and the corrosion was the result of
> too many years of previous owners not using any sort of
> anti-freeze/anti-corrosion in the cooling system. Just water.... I've since encountered
> former SoCal cars in which the pump impeller was completely rusted away, too!)
> >
> >
> > As to the thermostats: It must be pointed out that Mercedes thermostats
> are double-acting; that is, not only does the thermostat allow and block
> coolant flow through the radiator, but it also blocks/opens flow through the
> by-pass hose at the bottom of the thermostat housing. Looking at the
> thermostat one will notice a lower disc BELOW and mounted on the same shaft as
> the main part of the assembly. When the thermostat opens, this lower disc
> closes off the bypass circuit. Running a Mercedes engine without a thermostat
> will have the coolant directionless, not knowing whether it should go
> through the radiator, or the bypass. So, taking the pass of least resistance, it
> will go through the bypass hose. Running a Mercedes engine without a
> thermostat creates a condition where it is just as likely to over heat as running
> the engine with a thermostat that is stuck closed.
> >
> >
> > Mark in Lakewood, CO
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "n61cm" <jim@>
> > To: "diesel mercedes" <_diesel_mercedes@yahoogroups.com_
> (mailto:diesel_mercedes@yahoogroups.com) >
> > Sent: Sunday, July 8, 2012 8:27:59 AM
> > Subject: [diesel_mercedes] Re: water pump w126
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I'd say as a general rule, you leave the water pump alone until it
> starts leaking. If it has a belt connected to it and it's turning and not
> leaking, it's pumping. If you've taken the thermostat out and you're still
> overheating, you probably need a new radiator. Heating and cooling a radiator
> bends the vanes where they are attached to the tubes over and over like
> bending a coat hanger back and forth...eventually they break loose, and that
> leads to loss of cooling power. They can also get clogged up inside. If you
> have a radiator shop nearby they might be able to "boil it out" and repair it
> for you, but it's hard for them to compete against overseas labor, so you
> might find that a new radiator is your best option.
> >
> > While you have it off, you might want to clean out the cooling channels
> inside the block.
> >
> > Could be something else, but that's my guess.
> >
> > Jim
> >
>

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Re: [diesel_mercedes] Re: water pump w126

 

Chuck, 
 
    Was it last week or the week before that you were worrying about over heating, and a bunch of folks said: DO A CITRIC ACID FLUSH. 
 
    Then you came back with the water pump concern. 
 
    Did you do the citric acid flush?  If not, then changing the water pump, or the radiator may very well NOT solve your problem.  If the coolant isn't able to fully flush through the block because of schmutz build up, that issue is going to remain for all time. 
 
    Flushing the system can be messy and time consuming.  But it is WAY cheaper than throwing new parts, and the mechanic's time involved at the problem. 
 
Tom 
 
 
In a message dated 7/9/2012 1:13:29 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, jcrcpa@tx.rr.com writes:
 



Thanks Mark, this explanation fits with all the facts of my overheating car. I think I will have the mechanic replace the water pump, and then if necessary, replace the radiator.

Chuck
84300sd

--- In diesel_mercedes@yahoogroups.com, "Mark in Lakewood, CO" <beeser750@...> wrote:
>
> Hmm.... Just because a water pump is turning and not leaking doesn't necessarily mean it's good. The first diesel I ever drove was a '74 240D that belonged to a friend of mine in Arcardia, CA. When I came out to visit him, and asked him why he wasn't driving the 'Benz, he said it kept running too hot. He'd replaced the thermostat, had the radiator rodded out, and flushed the block. Still, it ran hot. I noticed a small leak coming from the water pump area, though not from the weep hole, so, I removed the water pump, and found that the aluminum pump housing had so much internal corrosion, that the machined part that the pump impeller rides up against (not quite touching, but, almost) was completely gone. The pump wasn 't pushing the coolant around, but merely stirring it in the housing. In fact, the corrosion had made the housing wall so thin there was a pinhole leak. Pump itself was fine, but we replaced the housing, and the hot running was gone.
>
>
>
> (This was a Southern California car, and the corrosion was the result of too many years of previous owners not using any sort of anti-freeze/anti-corrosion in the cooling system. Just water.... I've since encountered former SoCal cars in which the pump impeller was completely rusted away, too!)
>
>
> As to the thermostats: It must be pointed out that Mercedes thermostats are double-acting; that is, not only does the thermostat allow and block coolant flow through the radiator, but it also blocks/opens flow through the by-pass hose at the bottom of the thermostat housing. Looking at the thermostat one will notice a lower disc BELOW and mounted on the same shaft as the main part of the assembly. When the thermostat opens, this lower disc closes off the bypass circuit. Running a Mercedes engine without a thermostat will have the coolant directionless, not knowing whether it should go through the radiator, or the bypass. So, taking the pass of least resistance, it will go through the bypass hose. Running a Mercedes engine without a thermostat creates a condition where it is just as likely to over heat as running the engine with a thermostat that is stuck closed.
>
>
> Mark in Lakewood, CO
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "n61cm" <jim@...>
> To: "diesel mercedes" <diesel_mercedes@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, July 8, 2012 8:27:59 AM
> Subject: [diesel_mercedes] Re: water pump w126
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I'd say as a general rule, you leave the water pump alone until it starts leaking. If it has a belt connected to it and it's turning and not leaking, it's pumping. If you've taken the thermostat out and you're still overheating, you probably need a new radiator. Heating and cooling a radiator bends the vanes where they are attached to the tubes over and over like bending a coat hanger back and forth...eventually they break loose, and that leads to loss of cooling power. They can also get clogged up inside. If you have a radiator shop nearby they might be able to "boil it out" and repair it for you, but it's hard for them to compete against overseas labor, so you might find that a new radiator is your best option.
>
> While you have it off, you might want to clean out the cooling channels inside the block.
>
> Could be something else, but that's my guess.
>
> Jim
>

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[diesel_mercedes] Darn those plastic top radiators.

 

Pulled into the driveway with steam power. Popped the hood to see a fair amount of antifreeze about, the bloomin top rad hose pipe broken, gotta buy a new rad, coming in tomorrow for $250, wish I lived near Nate, he has all those PAPS, I had to go to my local FLAP, Oh well pick it up in the mornin, should be mobile by the afternoon.
Tony

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[diesel_mercedes] Re: water pump w126

 



Thanks Mark, this explanation fits with all the facts of my overheating car. I think I will have the mechanic replace the water pump, and then if necessary, replace the radiator.

Chuck
84300sd

--- In diesel_mercedes@yahoogroups.com, "Mark in Lakewood, CO" <beeser750@...> wrote:
>
> Hmm.... Just because a water pump is turning and not leaking doesn't necessarily mean it's good. The first diesel I ever drove was a '74 240D that belonged to a friend of mine in Arcardia, CA. When I came out to visit him, and asked him why he wasn't driving the 'Benz, he said it kept running too hot. He'd replaced the thermostat, had the radiator rodded out, and flushed the block. Still, it ran hot. I noticed a small leak coming from the water pump area, though not from the weep hole, so, I removed the water pump, and found that the aluminum pump housing had so much internal corrosion, that the machined part that the pump impeller rides up against (not quite touching, but, almost) was completely gone. The pump wasn 't pushing the coolant around, but merely stirring it in the housing. In fact, the corrosion had made the housing wall so thin there was a pinhole leak. Pump itself was fine, but we replaced the housing, and the hot running was gone.
>
>
>
> (This was a Southern California car, and the corrosion was the result of too many years of previous owners not using any sort of anti-freeze/anti-corrosion in the cooling system. Just water.... I've since encountered former SoCal cars in which the pump impeller was completely rusted away, too!)
>
>
> As to the thermostats: It must be pointed out that Mercedes thermostats are double-acting; that is, not only does the thermostat allow and block coolant flow through the radiator, but it also blocks/opens flow through the by-pass hose at the bottom of the thermostat housing. Looking at the thermostat one will notice a lower disc BELOW and mounted on the same shaft as the main part of the assembly. When the thermostat opens, this lower disc closes off the bypass circuit. Running a Mercedes engine without a thermostat will have the coolant directionless, not knowing whether it should go through the radiator, or the bypass. So, taking the pass of least resistance, it will go through the bypass hose. Running a Mercedes engine without a thermostat creates a condition where it is just as likely to over heat as running the engine with a thermostat that is stuck closed.
>
>
> Mark in Lakewood, CO
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "n61cm" <jim@...>
> To: "diesel mercedes" <diesel_mercedes@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, July 8, 2012 8:27:59 AM
> Subject: [diesel_mercedes] Re: water pump w126
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I'd say as a general rule, you leave the water pump alone until it starts leaking. If it has a belt connected to it and it's turning and not leaking, it's pumping. If you've taken the thermostat out and you're still overheating, you probably need a new radiator. Heating and cooling a radiator bends the vanes where they are attached to the tubes over and over like bending a coat hanger back and forth...eventually they break loose, and that leads to loss of cooling power. They can also get clogged up inside. If you have a radiator shop nearby they might be able to "boil it out" and repair it for you, but it's hard for them to compete against overseas labor, so you might find that a new radiator is your best option.
>
> While you have it off, you might want to clean out the cooling channels inside the block.
>
> Could be something else, but that's my guess.
>
> Jim
>

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Re: [diesel_mercedes] Re: water pump w126

 

Hmm....  Just because a water pump is turning and not leaking doesn't necessarily mean it's good. The first diesel I ever drove was a '74 240D that belonged to a friend of mine in Arcardia, CA.  When I came out to visit him, and asked him why he wasn't driving the 'Benz, he said it kept running too hot.  He'd replaced the thermostat, had the radiator rodded out, and flushed the block.  Still, it ran hot.  I noticed a small leak coming from the water pump area, though not from the weep hole, so, I removed the water pump, and found that the aluminum pump housing had so much internal corrosion, that the machined part that the pump impeller rides up against (not quite touching, but, almost) was completely gone.  The pump wasn't pushing the coolant around, but merely stirring it in the housing.  In fact, the corrosion had made the housing wall so thin there was a pinhole leak.  Pump itself was fine, but we replaced the housing, and the hot running was gone.

(This was a Southern California car, and the corrosion was the result of too many years of previous owners not using any sort of anti-freeze/anti-corrosion in the cooling system.  Just water....  I've since encountered former SoCal cars in which the pump impeller was completely rusted away, too!)

As to the thermostats:  It must be pointed out that Mercedes thermostats are double-acting; that is, not only does the thermostat allow and block coolant flow through the radiator, but it also blocks/opens flow through the by-pass hose at the bottom of the thermostat housing.  Looking at the thermostat one will notice a lower disc BELOW and mounted on the same shaft as the main part of the assembly.  When the thermostat opens, this lower disc closes off the bypass circuit.  Running a Mercedes engine without a thermostat will have the coolant directionless, not knowing whether it should go through the radiator, or the bypass.  So, taking the pass of least resistance, it will go through the bypass hose.  Running a Mercedes engine without a thermostat creates a condition where it is just as likely to over heat as running the engine with a thermostat that is stuck closed.

Mark in Lakewood, CO
From: "n61cm" <jim@tazwade.com>
To: "diesel mercedes" <diesel_mercedes@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 8, 2012 8:27:59 AM
Subject: [diesel_mercedes] Re: water pump w126

 

I'd say as a general rule, you leave the water pump alone until it starts leaking. If it has a belt connected to it and it's turning and not leaking, it's pumping. If you've taken the thermostat out and you're still overheating, you probably need a new radiator. Heating and cooling a radiator bends the vanes where they are attached to the tubes over and over like bending a coat hanger back and forth...eventually they break loose, and that leads to loss of cooling power. They can also get clogged up inside. If you have a radiator shop nearby they might be able to "boil it out" and repair it for you, but it's hard for them to compete against overseas labor, so you might find that a new radiator is your best option.

While you have it off, you might want to clean out the cooling channels inside the block.

Could be something else, but that's my guess.

Jim

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Re: [diesel_mercedes] Re: Starter removal 84 300D with auto tranny.

 

Yeah, you gotta get the car UP, high enough to swing a 24-inch breaker bar (or pipe slipped over a ratchet).  You gotta get a GOOD, 3/8- or 1/2-inch drive, 10mm hex bit in the bolt, square and all the way in.  Allen keys will NOT work.  You gotta get enough extensions on there to be able to swing your 24-inch breaker bar at least 90-degrees.  Make sure the bolt head is clean of any oily/greasy dirt; you may have to scrape it out with a small screwdriver.  Once I have my extensions set up with the hex bit, I will introduce the assembly to the bolt, then give a couple of firm taps with a 12-oz hammer to the rear most extension.  This will insure the bit is well seated into the bolt, and, maybe, will help break the bolts threads loose of corrosion.

BTW:  This is a WHOLE lot easier on an SD than on a W123 (or W115, for that matter), simply because you have more room between the bell housing and the firewall.

(Don't forget that "we" had a bit of help in the defeat of Germany in WWII.  They were hopelessly and literally bogged down in a fight with the Soviet Empire, diverting much needed kids, guns, German-jeeps, and so on.  Hitler and the Warmacht fatally underestimated Russian fighting will and skill, Russian weather, and "Rasputinitsa" - the Russian mud.)

Mark in Lakewood, CO (Self-proclaimed history nut....)
From: "Nate" <vwnate1@yahoo.com>
To: "diesel mercedes" <diesel_mercedes@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 8, 2012 7:31:09 PM
Subject: [diesel_mercedes] Re: Starter removal 84 300D with auto tranny.

 


I had to use every 3/8" extension in the tool box (several feet of them ,T om was amazed and might have measured it) and the longest flex handle to crack it loose , then I was able to unscrew that ding-dang bolt , the car was off the ground so I had plenty of space under it behind the tranny and I tuned the air blue in three counties before the job was done .

FWIW , the _only_ reason we won WWII was because we had more of everything , kids , guns , Jeeps and so on .

-Nate
Nick Said :
>
> Trying to get the top bolt out of the starter. I am ready to take a torch to the tranny tunnel if someone can not give me a better way.(and I am serious) Really, you guys think these cars are brilliant pieces of engineering?
> I have been working on cars for over 35 years. I can replace a chevy starter in less than 15 minutes and be enjoying a cold one in 20. I have worked on this for 5 hours. cut two allens, chopped up a good 10mm wrench then twisted it into a pretzel and still it does not move.
>
> Whoever designed a starter with allen bolts is a moron. Give me one good reason that an allen is necessary. No wonder we won WWII.
>
> Nick
>

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Re: [diesel_mercedes] Re: Suggestion on "where to buy" Dash Cover Up"??

 

Coverlay is the way to go, to doubt about it....

Mark in Lakewood, CO
From: "CaitlinDean" <tinymachine@gmail.com>
To: "diesel mercedes" <diesel_mercedes@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 8, 2012 1:20:30 PM
Subject: [diesel_mercedes] Re: Suggestion on "where to buy" Dash Cover Up"??

 

When I was looking into this last year, I *think* what I found was that Coverlay was a primary manufacturer and others sold their brand. Either way, I think their prices were comparable. I don't yet have personal experience, just sharing what I found.

http://www.coverlaymfg.com/store.php/categories/mercedes-dash-covers/

It's on my "someday soon" list...but won't happen until I do the more important stuff... (the one on my friend's wagon looks pretty great, and is hard to tell if you don't know)

good luck,
caitlin

> > --- In diesel_mercedes@yahoogroups.com, "Chip" <czulli@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Guys,
> > >
> > > I am going to buy a blue dash cover up for my coupe with the sensor
> > space.
> > >
> > > Can you suggest a "best source" on this part?

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Re: [diesel_mercedes] Stalling In Reverse , Poor Fuel Economy '81 240D

 

Very interesting.  Kevin's F250 stalls in reverse often.

This could tie in with what's wrong with my car. It just won't run right.  Changed both filters. Put Startron in tank. Filled tank with good diesel. Can't get over 50mph unless we're going downhill. 



--
Trish Dougherty
PurrFect Harmony Farm
Ennis, TX
http:/purrfectharmonyfarm.intuitwebsites.com

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Re: [diesel_mercedes] Re - Max OT

 

Thanks for the update!  Happy to hear he's getting around. 

It's not off topic he's a big part of our group.

On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 2:28 PM, Lost but making good time. <aldridgetony97@yahoo.com> wrote:
 

Had a really pleasant evening at Max's house on Friday,Trish Dougherty

PurrFect Harmony Farm
Ennis, TX
http:/purrfectharmonyfarm.intuitwebsites.com

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[diesel_mercedes] Re: Starter removal 84 300D with auto tranny.

 

Sometimes I will put a 12" piece of 1/2" or 3/4" galvanized pipe on a strong standard ratchet as an extension to make a hillbilly breaker bar.

Jim

--- In diesel_mercedes@yahoogroups.com, audiolaw@... wrote:
>
> I think that Nate is pointing something out, without specifically saying
> it.
>
> To get the bolt out, you need sufficient extension length to put an
> breaker bar or long flex handle to it WHILE MAINTAINING A STRAIGHT SHOT.

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