Thanks Mark......
I'll check into these.
It just seems, if a person could get the materials this way, stabilizing
gasoline would be much cheaper.
True, this is a diesel forum.
But, a good, much cheaper way to stabilize gasoline could easily be in many
of our best interests.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Atkins" <mratkins@embarqmail.com>
To: <diesel_mercedes@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2011 10:48 AM
Subject: Re: [diesel_mercedes] fuel
> Hi Henry,
>
> Glad you support Dr. Paul.
>
> Naphtha is sold a paint thinner, "Zippo" fuel, charcoal starter, etc.
> and is the product referenced as "petroleum distillates" in a lot of
> other products. It is a generic term for a product with a boiling range
> of 100 degrees (+/-) to <400 degrees. What that means is that it is
> typically a "gasoline" consistency material that has not been "cracked".
>
> Check out your paint aisle in Home Depot, Lowe's, etc. for thinners that
> say the ingredients are "naphtha". I suspect there are additional agents
> in the fuel stabilizers but don't know what they would be. When I was
> working, I could send stuff to our lab for analysis but that avenue is
> gone, now! For instance, the octane boosters are generally 98% toluene
> (naphtha derivative) and the balance methanol. Indeed a gallon of
> toluene is MUCH cheaper when bought as a paint thinner than as an octane
> booster!
>
> Hope that answers your question.
>
> Mark in Texas
>
>
>
> On 4/30/2011 11:48 AM, ygmir111 wrote:
>>
>> I wrote him in last time, Mark.
>>
>> also, I understand,that, the gov. makes more (in taxes) per gallon of
>> fuel,
>> than any other handler along the line.
>>
>> Being the expert here, do you know how a person would buy Naptha, as in
>> gasoline?
>> I'm told, that's the main ingredient of the "fuel stabilizers" sold
>> over the
>> counter. And, I'd bet, if purchased direct, would be way cheaper than
>> in the
>> red bottle.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Henry
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Mark Atkins" <mratkins@embarqmail.com
>> <mailto:mratkins%40embarqmail.com>>
>> To: <diesel_mercedes@yahoogroups.com
>> <mailto:diesel_mercedes%40yahoogroups.com>>
>> Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2011 9:42 AM
>> Subject: Re: [diesel_mercedes] fuel
>>
>> > Hey Guys, I have been following most of this thread and need to
>> > comment.
>> > I did this exact thing that you are discussing for 30 years, having
>> > retired on last March 1.
>> >
>> > Crude oil that enters a refinery is treated to remove salts and minor
>> > contaminants before being "charged" to one of the plants "units" (as
>> > they were referred to in my plant but may have different nomenclature
>> > in
>> > others). The "Crude Unit(s)" heat the stream and flow it into a "still"
>> > that separates the various components from the total stream. Crude oil
>> > is comprised of several different products that have different boiling
>> > ranges and as these materials move up the column they become
>> > progressively cooler and condense on a "tray" in the area of the still
>> > that the temperature and pressure of that "tray" permit it. These
>> > components, or fractions, are drawn off for further processing in other
>> > areas of the plant(s). Roughly, the order of these products are gasses,
>> > naphthas, kerosene, Diesel, light gas and heavy gas oils and residuum.
>> >
>> > At approximately the middle of the aforementioned still is where the
>> > Diesel product is drawn off. With the ULSD specs now virtually all
>> > Diesel must he desulfurized in some sort of hydrotreater. That is the
>> > new equipment we are paying for now. The point is Diesel is a product
>> > which is drawn "straight" off the still, hydrotreated, and sold as a
>> > finished product. OTOH, gasoline is a blend of the "lighter" components
>> > of the crude oil, primarially naphthas, which are "cracked" as
>> > referenced in another post to yield better quality materials (increased
>> > octane) for /blending/ into gasoline. Point here is that gasoline is a
>> > product that is blended from several components within the plant. These
>> > components must be hydrotreated as well and blended to the particular
>> > specification being sought. Gasoline sold in December, in Michigan say,
>> > is blended differently than December gas in Houston because of climate
>> > and engine performance considerations. A lot of low value components
>> > are
>> > put into gasoline as filler as well as the "cracked" stocks mentioned
>> > earlier.
>> >
>> > The "heavier" components of the crude are "cracked" in other areas of
>> > the plants and those components separated into the lighter fractions
>> > which are reprocessed to comprise the stocks for Diesel and gasoline
>> > and
>> > also lubricating oils, and asphalts which may be further processed if
>> > desired.
>> >
>> > All that said, I agree that the oil companies are ripping us off to a
>> > certain degree but the big bucks being made from oil is 1.) the
>> > government(s), 2.) Wall Street traders (COMEX) that buy and sell the
>> > crudes and products, and last 3.) the intermediaries and marketers of
>> > the products. If I am not correct, WHY do we have military presence in
>> > so many places that the majority just happen to be oil producers?
>> > Whoops, my Ron Paul is showing through!
>> >
>> > If you got this far then I guess I didn't bore you too much. I know
>> > some
>> > are asking to return to subject but if you have questions, comments,
>> > etc. contact me off list and I'll try to answer there!
>> >
>> > BTW, Ron Paul is in again for 2012. His message is "mainstream" now,
>> > instead of "fringe", and I am fortunate enough to have him as my
>> > congressman and friend. Please, at least, consider him for 2012!
>> >
>> > Mark in Texas
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On 4/30/2011 10:31 AM, Blaise Colasante wrote:
>> >> Another consideration here is that older refining processes extracted
>> >> available components from crude. More recently refining has added
>> >> "cracking" into the process to break some of the heavier fuels into
>> >> lighter fuels so more gasoline can be gotten from a barrel of crude
>> >> than is actually contained in the barrel as it comes from the well.
>> >> This may result in higher gasoline & lower diesel production.
>> >> Blaise
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ----------------------------------------------------------
>> >> *From:* "audiolaw@aol.com <mailto:audiolaw%40aol.com>"
>> <audiolaw@aol.com <mailto:audiolaw%40aol.com>>
>> >> *To:* diesel_mercedes@yahoogroups.com
>> <mailto:diesel_mercedes%40yahoogroups.com>
>> >> *Sent:* Sat, April 30, 2011 12:08:55 AM
>> >> *Subject:* Re: [diesel_mercedes] fuel
>> >>
>> >> I don't mean to sound cynical here, and anyone who knows me knows
>> >> that I have nothing but skepticism for the conduct of corporate
>> >> america. I think the oil companies are the bottom of the barrel for
>> >> corporate morals.
>> >> But I also see the real world out there. We have been eagerly
>> >> sending our manufacturing base overseas. Everyone talks about China,
>> >> but there is also Brazil and all those nations in the southeast Asian
>> >> area (including Vietnam).
>> >> All those place used to be farm based. Think of the pictures from
>> >> the Vietnam war, all the Hueys flying over rice paddies being plowed
>> >> by water buffalo.
>> >> Now those places are factory zones, with people making real wages
>> >> (low but real) instead of growing their own food. Mercedes says that
>> >> China is a bigger market now than the U.S. People aren't buying those
>> >> cars without having fuel to put in them. The factories aren't
>> >> cranking out products without trucks to take them to market.
>> >> Simple reality is that we are competing for fuel supplies with
>> >> emerging nations with huge and growing demand. Most places use diesel
>> >> more than gasoline. And there is less diesel in a barrel of crude
>> >> than there is gasoline.
>> >> I'm sure that there is plenty of collusion and price fixing and
>> >> any other number of things that companies do to push up prices. But
>> >> if the system were entirely fair and openly competitive, the emerging
>> >> nations would be soaking up huge amounts of fuel that used to be used
>> >> just by us and Europe. And the price would be rising and would
>> >> continue to rise into the future.
>> >> Tom
>> >> In a message dated 4/29/2011 5:55:49 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
>> >> duckn8r@me.com <mailto:duckn8r%40me.com> writes:
>> >>
>> >> Rock on bro you rule!!!
>> >> They have been over charging us for the last 12 or more years, can
>> >> any one tell me why diesel is more than gas. when they make gas
>> >> the diesel is what is left over they really don't have much to do
>> >> to make it real some body has to know why?
>> >>
>> >> Sent from my iPad
>> >>
>> >> On Apr 29, 2011, at 7:08 PM, max_stemple <max_stemple@yahoo.com
>> <mailto:max_stemple%40yahoo.com>
>> >> <mailto:max_stemple@yahoo.com <mailto:max_stemple%40yahoo.com>>>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> It's been $4.49 a gallon here for a lonmg time. Whats the problem
>> >>> with you other folks? Gas people? I say wWhat the fuck you
>> >>> complainging about, we diesel people are paying .50cents more so
>> >>> shut the fuck up please. Hey at least I say "please" Max
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >
>>
>>
>
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