Re: [diesel_mercedes] New Beetle DHC

 

I have some pictures of the car that I can send. How do I post them to the list?
Kevin in Hillsboro, Oregon

Sent from my cell   

On Jun 26, 2016, at 7:05 PM, vwnate1@yahoo.com [diesel_mercedes] <diesel_mercedes@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 




Sounds good to me ~

Post some pix of it when you get it .

Is she on board with this ? .

-Nate
         Kevin   wrote :

I will be in that area tomorrow afternoon since I am picking up a 2014 beetle TDI convertible and driving it back up to Oregon with my niece. Hopefully, the weather will be cool enough to enjoy a little bit of open air motoring.
Kevin in Hillsboro, OR


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Re: [diesel_mercedes] New Beetle DHC

 

The little beetle TDI convertible is a great car! Both my wife and my niece loved the pictures, and the drive home up to Oregon was awesome!  The diesel engine is quite Torquay which makes it fun to drive, and the dual clutch DSG automatic transmission is a totally different feeling! When you take your foot off the break and get ready to move, the system engages the clutch in the car creeps forward. The more throttle you apply, the quicker the clutch engages which really puts you back in your seat!  Once you're rolling, it shifts just as a normal automatic transmission would, or it has paddle shifters on the steering wheel so you can shift it yourself in sport mode which we didn't try.  There are two clutches inside the transmission. One controls first, third and fifth gear, while the other one controls second, fourth and six. It runs quietly and smoothly down the highway, and gets 35 miles to the gallon at 75 to 80 mph. I'm sure it would get 45 or so at 55 or 60 mph.  We had the top down for a few minutes yesterday, but it was too hot to have the top down most of the time, especially for my guide dog in the backseat.
Kevin in Hillsboro, Oregon

Sent from my cell   

On Jun 26, 2016, at 7:05 PM, vwnate1@yahoo.com [diesel_mercedes] <diesel_mercedes@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 




Sounds good to me ~

Post some pix of it when you get it .

Is she on board with this ? .

-Nate
         Kevin   wrote :

I will be in that area tomorrow afternoon since I am picking up a 2014 beetle TDI convertible and driving it back up to Oregon with my niece. Hopefully, the weather will be cool enough to enjoy a little bit of open air motoring.
Kevin in Hillsboro, OR


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Posted by: Kevin Kraly <kevinpaddler@gmail.com>
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Re: [diesel_mercedes] 240d engine in Jeep acting up

 

I hadn't considered a sticky valve. But it would not be that bad all things considered. And it may be fixable with some MMO if it is just some sludge. Much better than a cracked head or piston to be sure. I like this engine and if the head comes off then so do all the rings. Plus cylinder dressing and a complete head job and timing chain.

What do you think about advancing the timing a bit, just 'cause, for that better performance you talked about? I have lower diff's (3.54:1) than the 240Ds came with, but the oversized tires more than compensate and I am in 15% overdrive now. A little extra power would certainly help, but not at the expense of the rest of the drive train. Actually 4.10 or 4.11 diff's would give me a very accurate odometer/speedometer and the engine would see the same load as if it were in the original 240D. But until then a little extra power would be desirable sans adverse side effects.

Bogy.
 
"Hardware eventually fails. Software eventually works"                 - Michael Hartung


From: "'Mark in Lakewood, CO' beeser750@q.com [diesel_mercedes]" <diesel_mercedes@yahoogroups.com>
To: diesel mercedes <diesel_mercedes@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2016 9:04 PM
Subject: Re: [diesel_mercedes] 240d engine in Jeep acting up



The valves on these engines (and all other MB Single OHC engines) get LOOSER as the engine gets hotter.  So, if they're set correctly when cold, then they are most surly completely closed when hot.  Unless, they get sticky when they get hot....

Maybe a broken valve spring?  Other out-there ideas:  A bizarre crack in the piston that opens up when it warms up.  (Should cause more blow-by.)  Bent valve.  Some tiny bit of debris/dirt in the IP, injection line or injector.

The IP being 5 degrees retarded shouldn't make that big of difference, and besides, that would affect all cylinders the same.

By-the-way, you can advance the cam about 10-degrees by moving the sprocket one tooth to the right relative to the timing chain.  That would have your cam advanced 5-degrees, if it's now 5-degrees retarded, which would give a noticeable improvement in performance.  If the IP timing can't be corrected by rotating the IP on the block (it's mounted with slotted holes), it will need to be removed and reset onto the splines on the auxiliary shaft.

Mark in Centennial, CO

From: "Bogy Wan Kenobi polespearbogy@yahoo.com [diesel_mercedes]" <diesel_mercedes@yahoogroups.com>
To: "diesel mercedes" <diesel_mercedes@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2016 2:15:40 PM
Subject: Re: [diesel_mercedes] 240d engine in Jeep acting up

 
Once it is warmed up the miss happens at all speeds.

I forgot to say that I had the pump off and discovered that the check valves in the lift pump were not sealing. So I corrected that.

I also determined that the #1 outlet is exporting only about 70% of the fuel that the others are. Yet when I crack the #1 injector line the engine almost stalls. Not so with #4. Cracking #4 makes almost no difference once it starts to miss. I will deal with that once the #4 problem is solved.

Also, there was a lot of air problems that I only discovered when I replaced all the hoses with clear lines. That made a LOT of difference. But I highly recommend clear flexible hoses if you possibly can.

Also there is a check valve on the IP fuel return outlet that I did not know about previously. That was stuck and freeing that up also made a lot of difference in the ability to bleed out the air and get it to start. 

As for the chain stretch, the crank was about 5 degrees ahead of the cam so the cam, and hence the IP, was retarded. Is that a significant problem? Even if so I can't see that being responsible for a miss when things warm up.

I plan to warm it up and pull the valve cover and check the valve clearances when they are hot to see if they are closing and thus affecting compression. But I am going into uncharted territory after that.

The only thing else that I can think of, and I just thought of it, would be a cracked head that opens up when hot. And THAT is not a happy thought. But I do not notice any pressure build up in the cooling system, nor a loss of coolant. But I will look closer tomorrow when I resume the investigation.

Thanks for replying,
Bogy.

"Hardware eventually fails. Software eventually works"                 - Michael Hartung


From: "'Mark in Lakewood, CO' beeser750@q.com [diesel_mercedes]" <diesel_mercedes@yahoogroups.com>
To: diesel mercedes <diesel_mercedes@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2016 8:47 AM
Subject: Re: [diesel_mercedes] 240d engine in Jeep acting up



Is the miss when warmed up present only at idle, or at all engine speeds?

It's very doubtful that the compression will change in one cylinder more than the others after being warmed up.  Perhaps the efficiency of the injector could change with temperature, but this is also unlikely.

If the miss is exhibited at or near idle speeds, then this is usually due to air in the fuel line, or/and a weak lift pump.  From my experience, this will initially show up once the engine is warmed up, moreso than when cold.

If your crank is five degrees retarted relative to the cam (assuming the marks on the dampner/pulley are accurate), then your cam is 5-degrees advanced.  This would indicate little or no chain stretch, and would help performance, fuel mileage, etc.  

Mark in Centennial, CO

From: "Bogy Wan Kenobi polespearbogy@yahoo.com [diesel_mercedes]" <diesel_mercedes@yahoogroups.com>
To: "yahoogroups" <diesel_mercedes@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2016 8:29:17 AM
Subject: [diesel_mercedes] 240d engine in Jeep acting up

 
Guys and gal:

I have successfully installed a 240D and manual transmission in my Jeep CJ7. After some grief caused by a bad injector in the #4 hole the idle stabilized to the point that you could "balance a nickel on its edge". The aforementioned grief was due in part to replacing the injector with another that was also malfunctioning. A third injector from the old 5 banger suddenly stabilized the idle and I have since pressure tested and spray-pattern tested all of my spare injectors. (At least all of them that I could find.) I had 6 bad injectors out of some 20 spares. I now have a complete set of known good replacements for both my jeep and my daily driver, a 300td. But I digress.

Although the idle is now stable cold, when the engine warms up it has a pronounced miss. Cracking the lines reveals it is the #4 cylinder again. I adjusted the valves with the engine cold (not sure if that was the right temperature) and ran a compression test. All 4 holes are within 8% of each other cold - hence the decent idle when cold.

My question is - what might be the reason for it to start missing when it warms up. And since it is a diesel the obvious cause is a drop in compression to the point that it cannot get the intake air hot enough to ignite the fuel. Basic physics. There is no evidence of a head gasket leak that I can detect and that leaves rings and valves, and/or possibly an injector that malfunctions when it gets hot. And a change of injectors with one from another cylinder would prove/disprove the injector possibility.

Oh yeah - I measured my chain stretch and when the cam marks line up, the crankshaft indicator is about 5 degrees after tdc. I know this will affect the timing to some degree or another and since the IP is closer to the crank it should be somewhat less than 5 degrees. Your thoughts here are appreciated. I have not compensated for this at the IP, yet. Could this be part of the failure?

I am willing to accept that the rings fail when they warm up. I have never seen that and I certainly don't like the thought of doing a ring job even though I will if it is necessary. I am more inclined to believe it is valves expanding when hot beyond the clearance limits. But when the engine cools down it again idles fine.

Any and all comments and flames and . . . are welcome.

Color me perplexed.
Bogy.
 
"Hardware eventually fails. Software eventually works"                 - Michael Hartung









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Posted by: Bogy Wan Kenobi <polespearbogy@yahoo.com>
Reply via web post • Reply to sender • Reply to group • Start a New Topic • Messages in this topic (12)
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Re: [diesel_mercedes] 240D engine in Jeep acting up

 

Thanks Nate. I was planning on at least checking the valves hot to see if it was a valve stem (or something) heat expansion problem. But good advice that bit about not closing up loose ones. I would then have to wonder why is it expanding so much when it gets warm. But one thing at a time.
Bogy.
 
"Hardware eventually fails. Software eventually works"                 - Michael Hartung


From: "vwnate1@yahoo.com [diesel_mercedes]" <diesel_mercedes@yahoogroups.com>
To: diesel_mercedes@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2016 8:16 PM
Subject: [diesel_mercedes] 240D engine in Jeep acting up





Bogy ;

NO FLAMES for you .

As it's a miss as it warms up , I'd do a HOT valve adjustment next , do not close up any loose valves you may find .

Then a hot compression test .

The order in which you proceed is very important .

Maybe a cylinder leak down test ? .

Basic physics says to take the injectors back to the tester and rub them again using Diesel Kleen or similar , undiluted, have ready a bunch of Zip Lock freezer bags with the sliding closure , separate the good injectors by pressure , in sets as close to 5# as you can , this really makes for a smooth running engine .

Anything over 3° timing off is going to be a serious problem sooner than later , as soon as you make this engine run properly again , plan to replace the timing chain and guides .

-Nate
         Bogy   wrote :

Guys and gal:

I have successfully installed a 240D and manual transmission in my Jeep CJ7. After some grief caused by a bad injector in the #4 hole the idle stabilized to the point that you could "balance a nickel on its edge". The aforementioned grief was due in part to replacing the injector with another that was also malfunctioning. A third injector from the old 5 banger suddenly stabilized the idle and I have since pressure tested and spray-pattern tested all of my spare injectors. (At least all of them that I could find.) I had 6 bad injectors out of some 20 spares. I now have a complete set of known good replacements for both my jeep and my daily driver, a 300td. But I digress.

Although the idle is now stable cold, when the engine warms up it has a pronounced miss. Cracking the lines reveals it is the #4 cylinder again. I adjusted the valves with the engine cold (not sure if that was the right temperature) and ran a compression test. All 4 holes are within 8% of each other cold - hence the decent idle when cold.

My question is - what might be the reason for it to start missing when it warms up. And since it is a diesel the obvious cause is a drop in compression to the point that it cannot get the intake air hot enough to ignite the fuel. Basic physics. There is no evidence of a head gasket leak that I can detect and that leaves rings and valves, and/or possibly an injector that malfunctions when it gets hot. And a change of injectors with one from another cylinder would prove/disprove the injector possibility.

Oh yeah - I measured my chain stretch and when the cam marks line up, the crankshaft indicator is about 5 degrees after tdc. I know this will affect the timing to some degree or another and since the IP is closer to the crank it should be somewhat less than 5 degrees. Your thoughts here are appreciated. I have not compensated for this at the IP, yet. Could this be part of the failure?

I am willing to accept that the rings fail when they warm up. I have never seen that and I certainly don't like the thought of doing a ring job even though I will if it is necessary. I am more inclined to believe it is valves expanding when hot beyond the clearance limits. But when the engine cools down it again idles fine.

Any and all comments and flames and . . . are welcome.

Color me perplexed.
Bogy.
 
"Hardware eventually fails. Software eventually works"                 - Michael Hartung





__._,_.___
Posted by: Bogy Wan Kenobi <polespearbogy@yahoo.com>
Reply via web post • Reply to sender • Reply to group • Start a New Topic • Messages in this topic (11)
Have you tried the highest rated email app?
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.

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Re: [diesel_mercedes] 240d engine in Jeep acting up

 

The valves on these engines (and all other MB Single OHC engines) get LOOSER as the engine gets hotter.  So, if they're set correctly when cold, then they are most surly completely closed when hot.  Unless, they get sticky when they get hot....

Maybe a broken valve spring?  Other out-there ideas:  A bizarre crack in the piston that opens up when it warms up.  (Should cause more blow-by.)  Bent valve.  Some tiny bit of debris/dirt in the IP, injection line or injector.

The IP being 5 degrees retarded shouldn't make that big of difference, and besides, that would affect all cylinders the same.

By-the-way, you can advance the cam about 10-degrees by moving the sprocket one tooth to the right relative to the timing chain.  That would have your cam advanced 5-degrees, if it's now 5-degrees retarded, which would give a noticeable improvement in performance.  If the IP timing can't be corrected by rotating the IP on the block (it's mounted with slotted holes), it will need to be removed and reset onto the splines on the auxiliary shaft.

Mark in Centennial, CO

From: "Bogy Wan Kenobi polespearbogy@yahoo.com [diesel_mercedes]" <diesel_mercedes@yahoogroups.com>
To: "diesel mercedes" <diesel_mercedes@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2016 2:15:40 PM
Subject: Re: [diesel_mercedes] 240d engine in Jeep acting up

 

Once it is warmed up the miss happens at all speeds.

I forgot to say that I had the pump off and discovered that the check valves in the lift pump were not sealing. So I corrected that.

I also determined that the #1 outlet is exporting only about 70% of the fuel that the others are. Yet when I crack the #1 injector line the engine almost stalls. Not so with #4. Cracking #4 makes almost no difference once it starts to miss. I will deal with that once the #4 problem is solved.

Also, there was a lot of air problems that I only discovered when I replaced all the hoses with clear lines. That made a LOT of difference. But I highly recommend clear flexible hoses if you possibly can.

Also there is a check valve on the IP fuel return outlet that I did not know about previously. That was stuck and freeing that up also made a lot of difference in the ability to bleed out the air and get it to start. 

As for the chain stretch, the crank was about 5 degrees ahead of the cam so the cam, and hence the IP, was retarded. Is that a significant problem? Even if so I can't see that being responsible for a miss when things warm up.

I plan to warm it up and pull the valve cover and check the valve clearances when they are hot to see if they are closing and thus affecting compression. But I am going into uncharted territory after that.

The only thing else that I can think of, and I just thought of it, would be a cracked head that opens up when hot. And THAT is not a happy thought. But I do not notice any pressure build up in the cooling system, nor a loss of coolant. But I will look closer tomorrow when I resume the investigation.

Thanks for replying,
Bogy.

"Hardware eventually fails. Software eventually works"                 - Michael Hartung


From: "'Mark in Lakewood, CO' beeser750@q.com [diesel_mercedes]" <diesel_mercedes@yahoogroups.com>
To: diesel mercedes <diesel_mercedes@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2016 8:47 AM
Subject: Re: [diesel_mercedes] 240d engine in Jeep acting up



Is the miss when warmed up present only at idle, or at all engine speeds?

It's very doubtful that the compression will change in one cylinder more than the others after being warmed up.  Perhaps the efficiency of the injector could change with temperature, but this is also unlikely.

If the miss is exhibited at or near idle speeds, then this is usually due to air in the fuel line, or/and a weak lift pump.  From my experience, this will initially show up once the engine is warmed up, moreso than when cold.

If your crank is five degrees retarted relative to the cam (assuming the marks on the dampner/pulley are accurate), then your cam is 5-degrees advanced.  This would indicate little or no chain stretch, and would help performance, fuel mileage, etc.  

Mark in Centennial, CO

From: "Bogy Wan Kenobi polespearbogy@yahoo.com [diesel_mercedes]" <diesel_mercedes@yahoogroups.com>
To: "yahoogroups" <diesel_mercedes@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2016 8:29:17 AM
Subject: [diesel_mercedes] 240d engine in Jeep acting up

 
Guys and gal:

I have successfully installed a 240D and manual transmission in my Jeep CJ7. After some grief caused by a bad injector in the #4 hole the idle stabilized to the point that you could "balance a nickel on its edge". The aforementioned grief was due in part to replacing the injector with another that was also malfunctioning. A third injector from the old 5 banger suddenly stabilized the idle and I have since pressure tested and spray-pattern tested all of my spare injectors. (At least all of them that I could find.) I had 6 bad injectors out of some 20 spares. I now have a complete set of known good replacements for both my jeep and my daily driver, a 300td. But I digress.

Although the idle is now stable cold, when the engine warms up it has a pronounced miss. Cracking the lines reveals it is the #4 cylinder again. I adjusted the valves with the engine cold (not sure if that was the right temperature) and ran a compression test. All 4 holes are within 8% of each other cold - hence the decent idle when cold.

My question is - what might be the reason for it to start missing when it warms up. And since it is a diesel the obvious cause is a drop in compression to the point that it cannot get the intake air hot enough to ignite the fuel. Basic physics. There is no evidence of a head gasket leak that I can detect and that leaves rings and valves, and/or possibly an injector that malfunctions when it gets hot. And a change of injectors with one from another cylinder would prove/disprove the injector possibility.

Oh yeah - I measured my chain stretch and when the cam marks line up, the crankshaft indicator is about 5 degrees after tdc. I know this will affect the timing to some degree or another and since the IP is closer to the crank it should be somewhat less than 5 degrees. Your thoughts here are appreciated. I have not compensated for this at the IP, yet. Could this be part of the failure?

I am willing to accept that the rings fail when they warm up. I have never seen that and I certainly don't like the thought of doing a ring job even though I will if it is necessary. I am more inclined to believe it is valves expanding when hot beyond the clearance limits. But when the engine cools down it again idles fine.

Any and all comments and flames and . . . are welcome.

Color me perplexed.
Bogy.
 
"Hardware eventually fails. Software eventually works"                 - Michael Hartung





__._,_.___
Posted by: "Mark in Lakewood, CO" <beeser750@q.com>
Reply via web post • Reply to sender • Reply to group • Start a New Topic • Messages in this topic (10)
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.

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[diesel_mercedes] Junk Yard 'fun' under the SUN

 

O.K. , so I'm stoopid .


It's been over 100° F here of late so of course I went Junk Yarding this morning and found some good stuff , I had no tools (but a nice cool R12 240D ! )  .


So I plan to return to - morrow morning and hopefully get some pix before /when /as I'm working , this should be good ! .


-Nate

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Posted by: vwnate1@yahoo.com
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.

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[diesel_mercedes] 240D engine in Jeep acting up

 



Bogy ;

NO FLAMES for you .

As it's a miss as it warms up , I'd do a HOT valve adjustment next , do not close up any loose valves you may find .

Then a hot compression test .

The order in which you proceed is very important .

Maybe a cylinder leak down test ? .

Basic physics says to take the injectors back to the tester and rub them again using Diesel Kleen or similar , undiluted, have ready a bunch of Zip Lock freezer bags with the sliding closure , separate the good injectors by pressure , in sets as close to 5# as you can , this really makes for a smooth running engine .

Anything over 3° timing off is going to be a serious problem sooner than later , as soon as you make this engine run properly again , plan to replace the timing chain and guides .

-Nate
         Bogy   wrote :

Guys and gal:

I have successfully installed a 240D and manual transmission in my Jeep CJ7. After some grief caused by a bad injector in the #4 hole the idle stabilized to the point that you could "balance a nickel on its edge". The aforementioned grief was due in part to replacing the injector with another that was also malfunctioning. A third injector from the old 5 banger suddenly stabilized the idle and I have since pressure tested and spray-pattern tested all of my spare injectors. (At least all of them that I could find.) I had 6 bad injectors out of some 20 spares. I now have a complete set of known good replacements for both my jeep and my daily driver, a 300td. But I digress.

Although the idle is now stable cold, when the engine warms up it has a pronounced miss. Cracking the lines reveals it is the #4 cylinder again. I adjusted the valves with the engine cold (not sure if that was the right temperature) and ran a compression test. All 4 holes are within 8% of each other cold - hence the decent idle when cold.

My question is - what might be the reason for it to start missing when it warms up. And since it is a diesel the obvious cause is a drop in compression to the point that it cannot get the intake air hot enough to ignite the fuel. Basic physics. There is no evidence of a head gasket leak that I can detect and that leaves rings and valves, and/or possibly an injector that malfunctions when it gets hot. And a change of injectors with one from another cylinder would prove/disprove the injector possibility.

Oh yeah - I measured my chain stretch and when the cam marks line up, the crankshaft indicator is about 5 degrees after tdc. I know this will affect the timing to some degree or another and since the IP is closer to the crank it should be somewhat less than 5 degrees. Your thoughts here are appreciated. I have not compensated for this at the IP, yet. Could this be part of the failure?

I am willing to accept that the rings fail when they warm up. I have never seen that and I certainly don't like the thought of doing a ring job even though I will if it is necessary. I am more inclined to believe it is valves expanding when hot beyond the clearance limits. But when the engine cools down it again idles fine.

Any and all comments and flames and . . . are welcome.

Color me perplexed.
Bogy.
 
"Hardware eventually fails. Software eventually works"                 - Michael Hartung

__._,_.___
Posted by: vwnate1@yahoo.com
Reply via web post • Reply to sender • Reply to group • Start a New Topic • Messages in this topic (9)
Have you tried the highest rated email app?
With 4.5 stars in iTunes, the Yahoo Mail app is the highest rated email app on the market. What are you waiting for? Now you can access all your inboxes (Gmail, Outlook, AOL and more) in one place. Never delete an email again with 1000GB of free cloud storage.

.

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