Diesel RVs: 08/01/16

[diesel_mercedes] BEERS FOR EVERYBODY [1 Attachment]

[Attachment(s) from Bogy Wan Kenobi included below]

IT WORKS! HOT DAMN! IT WORKS!

I built a special test gizmo (see attached pic) after I cleaned the outlet parts. Then I swapped the #3 and #4 outlets since I was sure #3 pumped. Guess what? #3 pumped with the clean #4 outlet on it and now the #4 pump (with the old #3 outlet) is pumping too. So the #4 pump was good all the time and the whole problem was in the outlets - probably a dirty or otherwise malfunctioning check valve.

The initial tests were done with a weaker (1500 psi) injector and so I installed the full pressure injectors and all the individual pumps worked at full pressure. #3 (with the old #4 outlet was weak so I got a replacement from another IP and #3 became as strong as all the others. Looks like it was a faulty check valve all along.

I readjusted the rotation of the #4 outlet so it was more toward it's original position and the sprays all looked good both at idle and WOT. Most of all when I got it bled and started EVERY cylinder was contributing as proven by cracking the injector nuts in turn and almost killing the engine each time when the nuts got loose enough to prevent injection.

Nate I owe you more than I can pay for that suggestion. I would never have thought that the check valve might be the problem. But it made sense and mostly - IT WORKED. Thanks too for the pointer about the crush washer under the outlet. I guess those seal the check valve seats and may well be worth replacing since I have had them all out. I hope I never underestimate the value or contribution of such passive parts again.

Now I can work on more trivial stuff like improving the exhaust and installing some 4.10s in the diffs.

Thanks for all your help you guys. This had been a real exercise in discipline and rigor and perserverence for me. It has certainly been a developmental experience for me. It's true - whatever stress you endure that doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

I have some vids but they are too big to put in the files section.

Bogy

"Hardware eventually fails. Software eventually works" - Michael Hartung

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Posted by: Bogy Wan Kenobi <polespearbogy@yahoo.com>

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[diesel_mercedes] Delivery Valve Question [1 Attachment]

[Attachment(s) from vwnate1@yahoo.com [diesel_mercedes] included below]

No ~

That's how it's supposed to look , there's a copper crush washer down inside the well .

Yours looks much better than the ones I removed and discarded did .

I'd not use MEK , just keep it simple and use Ether and some Q-Tips .

-Nate
Bogy wrote :

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Posted by: vwnate1@yahoo.com

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[diesel_mercedes] IP pump outlet construction question [1 Attachment]

[Attachment(s) from Bogy Wan Kenobi included below]

I took the outlet off and have som MEK to clean the bits with. But the question arises - should there be an oring in the grove around the valve seat. See attached pic.

"Hardware eventually fails.
Software eventually works"
                - Michael Hartung

--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 8/1/16, vwnate1@yahoo.com [diesel_mercedes] <diesel_mercedes@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [diesel_mercedes] Loping OM616 injection pump test video
To: diesel_mercedes@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, August 1, 2016, 10:13 AM

Just so Bogy ;

It can have a lot of crud in there gumming
things up plus water drops too big to allow the passage of
fuel ~ I found both plus rust , I *think* the rust may have
precluded the valve from working properly .

The steel pipe is a red
herring ~ if the cylinder gets sufficient fuel to run off
idle , it's passing plenty of fuel and isn't blocked
.

I was told the discharge
volume is the primary change made when fiddling with the
13MM nuts and plate .

Timing is critical too .

Maybe Brian can find you a used 616 IP *BUT* I
recently tried chattnig up a fellow who was removing the IP
from an '85 300D , he was fairly pleasant but made it
clear he had NO IDEA how to check for a good used pump and
was only taking it to re sell on E-Bay so CAVEAT EMPTOR !
.

BTW : I too prefer to
learn thed hows and why's of things before making
repairs , most of the time when I mention teaching myself it
means I already have several spares , all the Tech info and
books I can find plus lots of discussions under my belt .

Knowledge is worthless unless
shared .

-Nate
Bogy   wrote :

Nate:

Are you then suggesting, possibly, that
perhaps the check valve is not seating properly? What else
could be wrong inside there. Forgive me, but it is my nature
to want to know WHY something is the way it is - not just
WHAT to do or not do. By the way, I can get fuel to move
down the line to bleed the line when reassembling. So there
is fuel moving out toward the injector when the line is
"open" or "cracked open" at the end, but
not when the injector is tightly attached.

It's too late for me to not touch the 13mm
ATF nuts. That is how I equalize fuel delivery on a per
stroke basis between the outlets. 5-6 revolutions of the
shaft produces less than 1 mm of difference in the height of
the fuel (in clear plastic pipes 3mm in diameter) across all
four outlets by rotating these outlets. I know it affects
the injection timing too. so what is more important - exact
timing or amount of fuel delivered?

I have had 2 new intake
screens on this rig in the last 400 miles. I have also taken
off the tank and cleaned it out thoroughly. There was a
trace of water in it and some of that was getting into the
intake screen and even the main filter. I always pour out
the contents of my fuel filters when I change them. Amazing
how much water can be in the bottom of those things. That is
why I pulled and cleaned the tank - I noticed some water in
the clear intake screen.

Otherwise thanks for the hope
that it is only a dirty or faulty outlet part.

Bogy.

"Hardware eventually fails. Software eventually
works"    - Michael
Hartung

From: "vwnate1@...
[diesel_mercedes]" <diesel_mercedes@yahoogroups.com>
To: diesel_mercedes@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2016 7:44 AM

Subject: [diesel_mercedes] Loping OM616
injection pump test video

Very good Bogy ;

Now , remove the # 4 injector
pipe from the IP and using a 15 MM six point deep socket ,
remove the delivery valve and swab down in the open hole
with clean Q-Tips and some brake cleaner or engine starting
fluid ~ the amount of crud and tiny water drops I found in
my worn out IP amazed me .

The elements in the delivery valve were also
rusty (!) before I found good one , I made do my wire
brushing them well before washing HOSPITAL CLEAN then re
assembling .

DO NOT touch
the two 13MM ATF nuts on the top of the IP !! .

Failures like this are why
Mercedes wants you to use a CLEAR PLASTIC fuel intake screen
.

Change it ASAP , Auto
Zone and Pep Boys both stock the correct clear plastic
version .

-Nate
   Bogy   wrote
:

Let's see if this
works.

"Hardware
eventually fails. Software eventually works"
   - Michael Hartung

__._,_.___

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Posted by: Bogy Wan Kenobi <polespearbogy@yahoo.com>

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Re: [diesel_mercedes] Loping OM616 injection pump test video

Just so Bogy ;

It can have a lot of crud in there gumming things up plus water drops too big to allow the passage of fuel ~ I found both plus rust , I *think* the rust may have precluded the valve from working properly .

The steel pipe is a red herring ~ if the cylinder gets sufficient fuel to run off idle , it's passing plenty of fuel and isn't blocked .

I was told the discharge volume is the primary change made when fiddling with the 13MM nuts and plate .

Timing is critical too .

Maybe Brian can find you a used 616 IP *BUT* I recently tried chattnig up a fellow who was removing the IP from an '85 300D , he was fairly pleasant but made it clear he had NO IDEA how to check for a good used pump and was only taking it to re sell on E-Bay so CAVEAT EMPTOR ! .

BTW : I too prefer to learn thed hows and why's of things before making repairs , most of the time when I mention teaching myself it means I already have several spares , all the Tech info and books I can find plus lots of discussions under my belt .

Knowledge is worthless unless shared .

-Nate
Bogy wrote :

Nate:

Are you then suggesting, possibly, that perhaps the check valve is not seating properly? What else could be wrong inside there. Forgive me, but it is my nature to want to know WHY something is the way it is - not just WHAT to do or not do. By the way, I can get fuel to move down the line to bleed the line when reassembling. So there is fuel moving out toward the injector when the line is "open" or "cracked open" at the end, but not when the injector is tightly attached.

It's too late for me to not touch the 13mm ATF nuts. That is how I equalize fuel delivery on a per stroke basis between the outlets. 5-6 revolutions of the shaft produces less than 1 mm of difference in the height of the fuel (in clear plastic pipes 3mm in diameter) across all four outlets by rotating these outlets. I know it affects the injection timing too. so what is more important - exact timing or amount of fuel delivered?

I have had 2 new intake screens on this rig in the last 400 miles. I have also taken off the tank and cleaned it out thoroughly. There was a trace of water in it and some of that was getting into the intake screen and even the main filter. I always pour out the contents of my fuel filters when I change them. Amazing how much water can be in the bottom of those things. That is why I pulled and cleaned the tank - I noticed some water in the clear intake screen.

Otherwise thanks for the hope that it is only a dirty or faulty outlet part.

Bogy.

"Hardware eventually fails. Software eventually works" - Michael Hartung

From: "vwnate1@... [diesel_mercedes]" <diesel_mercedes@yahoogroups.com>
To: diesel_mercedes@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2016 7:44 AM

Subject: [diesel_mercedes] Loping OM616 injection pump test video

Very good Bogy ;

Now , remove the # 4 injector pipe from the IP and using a 15 MM six point deep socket , remove the delivery valve and swab down in the open hole with clean Q-Tips and some brake cleaner or engine starting fluid ~ the amount of crud and tiny water drops I found in my worn out IP amazed me .

The elements in the delivery valve were also rusty (!) before I found good one , I made do my wire brushing them well before washing HOSPITAL CLEAN then re assembling .

DO NOT touch the two 13MM ATF nuts on the top of the IP !! .

Failures like this are why Mercedes wants you to use a CLEAR PLASTIC fuel intake screen .

Change it ASAP , Auto Zone and Pep Boys both stock the correct clear plastic version .

-Nate
Bogy wrote :

Let's see if this works.

"Hardware eventually fails. Software eventually works" - Michael Hartung

__._,_.___

Posted by: vwnate1@yahoo.com

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