Diesel RVs: Re: [diesel

Hey Guys, I have been following most of this thread and need to comment. I did this exact thing that you are discussing for 30 years, having retired on last March 1.

Crude oil that enters a refinery is treated to remove salts and minor contaminants before being "charged" to one of the plants "units" (as they were referred to in my plant but may have different nomenclature in others). The "Crude Unit(s)" heat the stream and flow it into a "still" that separates the various components from the total stream. Crude oil is comprised of several different products that have different boiling ranges and as these materials move up the column they become progressively cooler and condense on a "tray" in the area of the still that the temperature and pressure of that "tray" permit it. These components, or fractions, are drawn off for further processing in other areas of the plant(s). Roughly, the order of these products are gasses, naphthas, kerosene, Diesel, light gas and heavy gas oils and residuum.

At approximately the middle of the aforementioned still is where the Diesel product is drawn off. With the ULSD specs now virtually all Diesel must he desulfurized in some sort of hydrotreater. That is the new equipment we are paying for now. The point is Diesel is a product which is drawn "straight" off the still, hydrotreated, and sold as a finished product. OTOH, gasoline is a blend of the "lighter" components of the crude oil, primarially naphthas, which are "cracked" as referenced in another post to yield better quality materials (increased octane) for blending into gasoline. Point here is that gasoline is a product that is blended from several components within the plant. These components must be hydrotreated as well and blended to the particular specification being sought. Gasoline sold in December, in Michigan say, is blended differently than December gas in Houston because of climate and engine performance considerations. A lot of low value components are put into gasoline as filler as well as the "cracked" stocks mentioned earlier.

The "heavier" components of the crude are "cracked" in other areas of the plants and those components separated into the lighter fractions which are reprocessed to comprise the stocks for Diesel and gasoline and also lubricating oils, and asphalts which may be further processed if desired.

All that said, I agree that the oil companies are ripping us off to a certain degree but the big bucks being made from oil is 1.) the government(s), 2.) Wall Street traders (COMEX) that buy and sell the crudes and products, and last 3.) the intermediaries and marketers of the products. If I am not correct, WHY do we have military presence in so many places that the majority just happen to be oil producers? Whoops, my Ron Paul is showing through!

If you got this far then I guess I didn't bore you too much. I know some are asking to return to subject but if you have questions, comments, etc. contact me off list and I'll try to answer there!

BTW, Ron Paul is in again for 2012. His message is "mainstream" now, instead of "fringe", and I am fortunate enough to have him as my congressman and friend. Please, at least, consider him for 2012!

Mark in Texas

On 4/30/2011 10:31 AM, Blaise Colasante wrote:

Another consideration here is that older refining processes extracted available components from crude. More recently refining has added "cracking" into the process to break some of the heavier fuels into lighter fuels so more gasoline can be gotten from a barrel of crude than is actually contained in the barrel as it comes from the well. This may result in higher gasoline & lower diesel production.
Blaise

From: "audiolaw@aol.com" <audiolaw@aol.com>
To: diesel_mercedes@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, April 30, 2011 12:08:55 AM
Subject: Re: [diesel_mercedes] fuel

    I don't mean to sound cynical here, and anyone who knows me knows that I have nothing but skepticism for the conduct of corporate america. I think the oil companies are the bottom of the barrel for corporate morals.

    But I also see the real world out there. We have been eagerly sending our manufacturing base overseas. Everyone talks about China, but there is also Brazil and all those nations in the southeast Asian area (including Vietnam).

    All those place used to be farm based. Think of the pictures from the Vietnam war, all the Hueys flying over rice paddies being plowed by water buffalo.

    Now those places are factory zones, with people making real wages (low but real) instead of growing their own food. Mercedes says that China is a bigger market now than the U.S. People aren't buying those cars without having fuel to put in them. The factories aren't cranking out products without trucks to take them to market.

    Simple reality is that we are competing for fuel supplies with emerging nations with huge and growing demand. Most places use diesel more than gasoline. And there is less diesel in a barrel of crude than there is gasoline.

    I'm sure that there is plenty of collusion and price fixing and any other number of things that companies do to push up prices. But if the system were entirely fair and openly competitive, the emerging nations would be soaking up huge amounts of fuel that used to be used just by us and Europe. And the price would be rising and would continue to rise into the future.

Tom

In a message dated 4/29/2011 5:55:49 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, duckn8r@me.com writes:

Rock on bro you rule!!!

They have been over charging us for the last 12 or more years, can any one tell me why diesel is more than gas. when they make gas the diesel is what is left over they really don't have much to do to make it real some body has to know why?

Sent from my iPad

On Apr 29, 2011, at 7:08 PM, max_stemple <max_stemple@yahoo.com> wrote:

It's been $4.49 a gallon here for a lonmg time. Whats the problem with you other folks? Gas people? I say wWhat the fuck you complainging about, we diesel people are paying .50cents more so shut the fuck up please. Hey at least I say "please" Max