HI Mark,
yeah, I've gone that route........one fellow, on another list who is/was a
petroleum chemist (though not working with that product) said his best
figuring was the main thing, that stabilized and kept the gas "fresh" was
naptha.
He though, most of any other ingredients, were there to throw off
competitors copying the blend, by breaking it down.
I'll keep searching.......I know the answer is out there somewhere.
Thanks for the info, though.
Henry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Atkins" <mratkins@embarqmail.com>
To: <diesel_mercedes@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2011 11:20 AM
Subject: Re: [diesel_mercedes] fuel
> Hi Henry,
>
> These is an MSDS for one of the fuel (gasoline) stabilizers located at:
> http://www.batterystuff.com/files/manual-PRIG32oz.pdf . As I expected,
> the actual contents are proprietary blends of distillates and other
> ingredients. This stuff shows a solvent along with amines and
> dispersants in varying degrees. The $64,000 question is what are they? I
> am not a chemist, only a lowly Stillman! Maybe there are others on the
> list that are.
>
> Take care,
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> On 4/30/2011 12:56 PM, ygmir111 wrote:
>>
>> Thanks Mark......
>> I'll check into these.
>> It just seems, if a person could get the materials this way, stabilizing
>> gasoline would be much cheaper.
>> True, this is a diesel forum.
>> But, a good, much cheaper way to stabilize gasoline could easily be in
>> many
>> of our best interests.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Mark Atkins" <mratkins@embarqmail.com
>> <mailto:mratkins%40embarqmail.com>>
>> To: <diesel_mercedes@yahoogroups.com
>> <mailto:diesel_mercedes%40yahoogroups.com>>
>> Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2011 10:48 AM
>> Subject: Re: [diesel_mercedes] fuel
>>
>> > Hi Henry,
>> >
>> > Glad you support Dr. Paul.
>> >
>> > Naphtha is sold a paint thinner, "Zippo" fuel, charcoal starter, etc.
>> > and is the product referenced as "petroleum distillates" in a lot of
>> > other products. It is a generic term for a product with a boiling range
>> > of 100 degrees (+/-) to <400 degrees. What that means is that it is
>> > typically a "gasoline" consistency material that has not been
>> > "cracked".
>> >
>> > Check out your paint aisle in Home Depot, Lowe's, etc. for thinners
>> > that
>> > say the ingredients are "naphtha". I suspect there are additional
>> > agents
>> > in the fuel stabilizers but don't know what they would be. When I was
>> > working, I could send stuff to our lab for analysis but that avenue is
>> > gone, now! For instance, the octane boosters are generally 98% toluene
>> > (naphtha derivative) and the balance methanol. Indeed a gallon of
>> > toluene is MUCH cheaper when bought as a paint thinner than as an
>> > octane
>> > booster!
>> >
>> > Hope that answers your question.
>> >
>> > Mark in Texas
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On 4/30/2011 11:48 AM, ygmir111 wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I wrote him in last time, Mark.
>> >>
>> >> also, I understand,that, the gov. makes more (in taxes) per gallon of
>> >> fuel,
>> >> than any other handler along the line.
>> >>
>> >> Being the expert here, do you know how a person would buy Naptha, as
>> >> in
>> >> gasoline?
>> >> I'm told, that's the main ingredient of the "fuel stabilizers" sold
>> >> over the
>> >> counter. And, I'd bet, if purchased direct, would be way cheaper than
>> >> in the
>> >> red bottle.
>> >>
>> >> Thanks,
>> >> Henry
>> >>
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: "Mark Atkins" <mratkins@embarqmail.com
>> <mailto:mratkins%40embarqmail.com>
>> >> <mailto:mratkins%40embarqmail.com>>
>> >> To: <diesel_mercedes@yahoogroups.com
>> <mailto:diesel_mercedes%40yahoogroups.com>
>> >> <mailto:diesel_mercedes%40yahoogroups.com>>
>> >> Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2011 9:42 AM
>> >> Subject: Re: [diesel_mercedes] fuel
>> >>
>> >> > Hey Guys, I have been following most of this thread and need to
>> >> > comment.
>> >> > I did this exact thing that you are discussing for 30 years, having
>> >> > retired on last March 1.
>> >> >
>> >> > Crude oil that enters a refinery is treated to remove salts and
>> >> > minor
>> >> > contaminants before being "charged" to one of the plants "units" (as
>> >> > they were referred to in my plant but may have different
>> nomenclature
>> >> > in
>> >> > others). The "Crude Unit(s)" heat the stream and flow it into a
>> "still"
>> >> > that separates the various components from the total stream.
>> Crude oil
>> >> > is comprised of several different products that have different
>> boiling
>> >> > ranges and as these materials move up the column they become
>> >> > progressively cooler and condense on a "tray" in the area of the
>> still
>> >> > that the temperature and pressure of that "tray" permit it. These
>> >> > components, or fractions, are drawn off for further processing in
>> other
>> >> > areas of the plant(s). Roughly, the order of these products are
>> gasses,
>> >> > naphthas, kerosene, Diesel, light gas and heavy gas oils and
>> residuum.
>> >> >
>> >> > At approximately the middle of the aforementioned still is where the
>> >> > Diesel product is drawn off. With the ULSD specs now virtually all
>> >> > Diesel must he desulfurized in some sort of hydrotreater. That is
>> >> > the
>> >> > new equipment we are paying for now. The point is Diesel is a
>> >> > product
>> >> > which is drawn "straight" off the still, hydrotreated, and sold as a
>> >> > finished product. OTOH, gasoline is a blend of the "lighter"
>> components
>> >> > of the crude oil, primarially naphthas, which are "cracked" as
>> >> > referenced in another post to yield better quality materials
>> (increased
>> >> > octane) for /blending/ into gasoline. Point here is that gasoline
>> is a
>> >> > product that is blended from several components within the plant.
>> These
>> >> > components must be hydrotreated as well and blended to the
>> >> > particular
>> >> > specification being sought. Gasoline sold in December, in
>> Michigan say,
>> >> > is blended differently than December gas in Houston because of
>> climate
>> >> > and engine performance considerations. A lot of low value components
>> >> > are
>> >> > put into gasoline as filler as well as the "cracked" stocks
>> >> > mentioned
>> >> > earlier.
>> >> >
>> >> > The "heavier" components of the crude are "cracked" in other areas
>> >> > of
>> >> > the plants and those components separated into the lighter fractions
>> >> > which are reprocessed to comprise the stocks for Diesel and gasoline
>> >> > and
>> >> > also lubricating oils, and asphalts which may be further processed
>> >> > if
>> >> > desired.
>> >> >
>> >> > All that said, I agree that the oil companies are ripping us off to
>> >> > a
>> >> > certain degree but the big bucks being made from oil is 1.) the
>> >> > government(s), 2.) Wall Street traders (COMEX) that buy and sell the
>> >> > crudes and products, and last 3.) the intermediaries and marketers
>> >> > of
>> >> > the products. If I am not correct, WHY do we have military
>> presence in
>> >> > so many places that the majority just happen to be oil producers?
>> >> > Whoops, my Ron Paul is showing through!
>> >> >
>> >> > If you got this far then I guess I didn't bore you too much. I know
>> >> > some
>> >> > are asking to return to subject but if you have questions, comments,
>> >> > etc. contact me off list and I'll try to answer there!
>> >> >
>> >> > BTW, Ron Paul is in again for 2012. His message is "mainstream" now,
>> >> > instead of "fringe", and I am fortunate enough to have him as my
>> >> > congressman and friend. Please, at least, consider him for 2012!
>> >> >
>> >> > Mark in Texas
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > On 4/30/2011 10:31 AM, Blaise Colasante wrote:
>> >> >> Another consideration here is that older refining processes
>> extracted
>> >> >> available components from crude. More recently refining has added
>> >> >> "cracking" into the process to break some of the heavier fuels into
>> >> >> lighter fuels so more gasoline can be gotten from a barrel of crude
>> >> >> than is actually contained in the barrel as it comes from the well.
>> >> >> This may result in higher gasoline & lower diesel production.
>> >> >> Blaise
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >> *From:* "audiolaw@aol.com <mailto:audiolaw%40aol.com>
>> <mailto:audiolaw%40aol.com>"
>> >> <audiolaw@aol.com <mailto:audiolaw%40aol.com>
>> <mailto:audiolaw%40aol.com>>
>> >> >> *To:* diesel_mercedes@yahoogroups.com
>> <mailto:diesel_mercedes%40yahoogroups.com>
>> >> <mailto:diesel_mercedes%40yahoogroups.com>
>> >> >> *Sent:* Sat, April 30, 2011 12:08:55 AM
>> >> >> *Subject:* Re: [diesel_mercedes] fuel
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I don't mean to sound cynical here, and anyone who knows me knows
>> >> >> that I have nothing but skepticism for the conduct of corporate
>> >> >> america. I think the oil companies are the bottom of the barrel for
>> >> >> corporate morals.
>> >> >> But I also see the real world out there. We have been eagerly
>> >> >> sending our manufacturing base overseas. Everyone talks about
>> >> >> China,
>> >> >> but there is also Brazil and all those nations in the southeast
>> Asian
>> >> >> area (including Vietnam).
>> >> >> All those place used to be farm based. Think of the pictures from
>> >> >> the Vietnam war, all the Hueys flying over rice paddies being
>> >> >> plowed
>> >> >> by water buffalo.
>> >> >> Now those places are factory zones, with people making real wages
>> >> >> (low but real) instead of growing their own food. Mercedes says
>> >> >> that
>> >> >> China is a bigger market now than the U.S. People aren't buying
>> those
>> >> >> cars without having fuel to put in them. The factories aren't
>> >> >> cranking out products without trucks to take them to market.
>> >> >> Simple reality is that we are competing for fuel supplies with
>> >> >> emerging nations with huge and growing demand. Most places use
>> diesel
>> >> >> more than gasoline. And there is less diesel in a barrel of crude
>> >> >> than there is gasoline.
>> >> >> I'm sure that there is plenty of collusion and price fixing and
>> >> >> any other number of things that companies do to push up prices. But
>> >> >> if the system were entirely fair and openly competitive, the
>> emerging
>> >> >> nations would be soaking up huge amounts of fuel that used to be
>> used
>> >> >> just by us and Europe. And the price would be rising and would
>> >> >> continue to rise into the future.
>> >> >> Tom
>> >> >> In a message dated 4/29/2011 5:55:49 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
>> >> >> duckn8r@me.com <mailto:duckn8r%40me.com>
>> <mailto:duckn8r%40me.com> writes:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Rock on bro you rule!!!
>> >> >> They have been over charging us for the last 12 or more years, can
>> >> >> any one tell me why diesel is more than gas. when they make gas
>> >> >> the diesel is what is left over they really don't have much to do
>> >> >> to make it real some body has to know why?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Sent from my iPad
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On Apr 29, 2011, at 7:08 PM, max_stemple <max_stemple@yahoo.com
>> <mailto:max_stemple%40yahoo.com>
>> >> <mailto:max_stemple%40yahoo.com>
>> >> >> <mailto:max_stemple@yahoo.com <mailto:max_stemple%40yahoo.com>
>> <mailto:max_stemple%40yahoo.com>>>
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> It's been $4.49 a gallon here for a lonmg time. Whats the problem
>> >> >>> with you other folks? Gas people? I say wWhat the fuck you
>> >> >>> complainging about, we diesel people are paying .50cents more so
>> >> >>> shut the fuck up please. Hey at least I say "please" Max
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>>
>>
>
