Diesel RVs: 07/23/16

Re: [diesel_mercedes] Re: Just do the math

Its good to be enthusiastic, but that sometimes ends up pushing the math to what you want it to be. I've burned myself by not using math to justify decisions.

The article defines an experimental car, not what is available now, or in the near future. It says "Current cars are by far not suitable to be powered by solar energy. If you would put solar modules on a Tesla or Nissan Leaf, it would never be able to contribute a significant amount of power to the car."

It has a 2 HP motor. Most likely you need to keep the speed low to get the mileage. The leaf has a 107HP motor with 30KWH battery. Using the Articles "10 hours to solar charge the 15KWH battery", it looks like it would be 20+ hours to charge a leaf on solar.

Tesla may be able to run cars from solar. I'm thinking 5-10KW home solar panels with 2-3 "power wall" batteries. That's going to be a tough payback analysis. Most owners will probably charge from the grid.

I still can't make the math work for me. Mostly I was thinking of the number of elect cars being sold with no extra capacity on the grid. The US grid is antique with no improvements planned. No one wants the power lines in their back yard. NH Northern Pass has been 5 years of battles. Kinder Morgan just cancelled the natural gas pipe plans. With a limited supply, and huge demand, elect prices have to rise. I'm sure some corporation/lobbiest is betting on this, sort of like what Boone T Pickens did with natural gas. I'm betting nuclear with new transmission main lines.

Possibly, you could win if you had spot rate pricing. You can charge during the off peak times when elect rates are low, but that may be only a few hours a day, possibly less if other car owners are trying the same. It may take days to charge the battery.

This is off sometime in the future, maybe as soon as 5-10 years, maybe later. We are all doing math with unknown assumptions.

I'll hang on to my Mercedes for a while longer. Diesel fuel should be dropping as people move away from it.

Carl

On 7/23/2016 7:11 PM, Lawrence Rhodes primobassoon@sbcglobal.net [diesel_mercedes] wrote:

This is why I am excited about electric cars, specifically solar cars. No external fuel needed unless you drive more than 200 miles a day. If you drive more or at night you still have a 400 mile range. During racing this vehicle set a record of 932 miles over two days of racing in bright sun. 4 passenger vehicle with a trunk. What's not to like. LR

http://sinovoltaics.com/technology/stella-lux-winner-of-world-solar-challenge-visits-shanghai/

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Posted by: Carl <diyernh@comcast.net>

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Re: [diesel_mercedes] Re: Just do the math

The price, most likely....

Mark in Centennial, CO

From: "Lawrence Rhodes primobassoon@sbcglobal.net [diesel_mercedes]" <diesel_mercedes@yahoogroups.com>
To: "Zappy Rejection" <diesel_mercedes@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2016 5:11:33 PM
Subject: [diesel_mercedes] Re: Just do the math

This is why I am excited about electric cars, specifically solar cars. No external fuel needed unless you drive more than 200 miles a day. If you drive more or at night you still have a 400 mile range. During racing this vehicle set a record of 932 miles over two days of racing in bright sun. 4 passenger vehicle with a trunk. What's not to like. LR

http://sinovoltaics.com/technology/stella-lux-winner-of-world-solar-challenge-visits-shanghai/

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Posted by: "Mark in Lakewood, CO" <beeser750@q.com>

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[diesel_mercedes] Re: Just do the math

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Posted by: Lawrence Rhodes <primobassoon@sbcglobal.net>

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Re: [diesel_mercedes] Elder Driving

I wish my seeing eye dog could drive me around. I can't wait for the self driving cars!!

Kevin currently in Riberside, CA heading for Costa Mesa

Sent from my cell

On Jul 23, 2016, at 10:34 AM, Alan Boucher alsthe1@gmail.com [diesel_mercedes] <diesel_mercedes@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

I hear that they are working on a seeing eye car.

On Sat, Jul 23, 2016 at 12:59 PM, Max temple jasperezra@gmail.com [diesel_mercedes] <diesel_mercedes@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Just wait till you get cataracts , oboy, is driving after dark a experience then, even after the surgeries. Max

On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 9:42 PM, vwnate1@yahoo.com [diesel_mercedes] <diesel_mercedes@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

I'm not that old but I no longer like to drive after sunset .

I hope this gets better next week when I go in for my bi annual eye test and I order in some new eye glasses .

-Nate

--
Al Boucher

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Posted by: Kevin Kraly <kevinpaddler@gmail.com>

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Re: [diesel_mercedes] Elder Driving

I hear that they are working on a seeing eye car.

On Sat, Jul 23, 2016 at 12:59 PM, Max temple jasperezra@gmail.com [diesel_mercedes] <diesel_mercedes@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Just wait till you get cataracts , oboy, is driving after dark a experience then, even after the surgeries. Max

On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 9:42 PM, vwnate1@yahoo.com [diesel_mercedes] <diesel_mercedes@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

I'm not that old but I no longer like to drive after sunset .

I hope this gets better next week when I go in for my bi annual eye test and I order in some new eye glasses .

-Nate

Al Boucher

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Posted by: Alan Boucher <alsthe1@gmail.com>

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Re: [diesel_mercedes] Just do the math. OFF TOPIC.

I for one think discussions like this are on topic, enough. I like to hear about all this stuff and this is related, sort of. Max

On Sat, Jul 23, 2016 at 8:36 AM, Carl diyernh@comcast.net [diesel_mercedes] <diesel_mercedes@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Lawrence,

I do try to do the math before any decision. There are some factors that are hard to find, mostly efficiency and losses.

Where is the cost of elect calculated, grid costs? Different parts of the country have drastic different costs.

If this is grid costs, what are the conversion losses to the charger? Then what are the losses during charging the battery?

If you don't drive the car, what is the discharge rate? Some numbers I see are just from the car's monitors. Others are measuring power losses through each conversion. Some Tesla owners are seeing approx. 10 miles of losses for each day not driving.

Is off grid solar capable of charging the car? I expect that grid elect pricing may go to spot market rates. There are a ton of new elect cars using the grid, all wanting immediate recharges. In NH, the cost of elect passed $1.00 per KWH during the peak times. We are already maxing the power grid on many days.

Obama just signed some bill to add elect charging stations and get more municipalities to go to elect cars. I'm thinking the next "big oil" will be "big elect". Electric may be a captive customer that you can't easily use alternatives.

You may have it really good for a few years with flat rate elect rates, no spot pricing, and solar grid ties at retail rates. The US is like a game of Monopoly that lobbyists convince the public to jump into their profit plan.

I think I may buy nuclear energy and elect grid stocks and keep my Mercedes right now. I am interested if you do have measurements/calculations.

This can go off board as this is off topic.

Carl

On 7/19/2016 11:58 AM, Lawrence Rhodes primobassoon@sbcglobal.net [diesel_mercedes] wrote:

I am paying $258 a month(5 years it's mine with no interest) for the privilege of driving a new car which is smooth quiet. I spent 900 dollars to drive for 3 years(39k miles) in electricity on our first lease. It will cost $5,500.00 for a new battery in 8 to 10 years if I make past the warranty date. If not Nissan replaces the battery for free. I get in the carpool lane solo as well as reduced tolls.

I have been into the w123 vehicles as deep as any one. Put in a transmission by myself, starter, many alternators, self leveling system including a ruptured front high pressure hose as well as two rear modules, vac pump, cutoff switch, seats many fiddly bits. I also saved 25k dollars or more in fuel by running vegetable oil in more than a decade of running these wonderful machines plus 20 conversions for myself others. So I know what I'm talking about.

If you add up all the money you spent on acquisition, maintaining, fuel you will find electrics very attractive. They are also clean air vehicles which our beloved Mercedes are not. So no dirty hands time spent on my back like a whore to these ancient chariots......just do the "complete" math. I have better things to do with my time and money...but they were fun while it lasted. Lawrence Rhodes

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Posted by: Max temple <jasperezra@gmail.com>

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Re: [diesel_mercedes] Elder Driving

Just wait till you get cataracts , oboy, is driving after dark a experience then, even after the surgeries. Max

On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 9:42 PM, vwnate1@yahoo.com [diesel_mercedes] <diesel_mercedes@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

I'm not that old but I no longer like to drive after sunset .

I hope this gets better next week when I go in for my bi annual eye test and I order in some new eye glasses .

-Nate

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Posted by: Max temple <jasperezra@gmail.com>

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Re: [diesel_mercedes] ON Topic VW Beetle TDI Oil Change

One thing that bugs me about my 240's is the size of the drain plug. Are 300's that tiny 13mm plug? on my Subarus its a huge 17mm plug and the oil gushes out very fast. Mercedes way too small for a fast oil drain. max

On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 9:35 PM, vwnate1@yahoo.com [diesel_mercedes] <diesel_mercedes@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Sounds good , I hope you had the engine hot to the touch as detergent oils don't work well unless at operating temperature .

I also hope you understand that a fair good bit of dirt , sludge and wear particles were left in the engine by vacuuming the old oil out via the dipstick .

-Nate
Kevin wrote :

Hello listers. Today, I finally had the time and equipment to change the oil in my Beetle TDI 15Kmi. I set up my topsider, took out the dipstick, and pumped it up. It worked flawlessly! To get to the oil filter, I had to remove the decorative engine cover which is held in place by a ball and socket mount in each corner, I was greeted by an engine covered with wires and hoses going every which way. So where's the dang oil filter??? After a few minutes of feeling around and a few more minutes on Google, I found an informative post describing the exact location and the 32mm socket needed for removal. Luckily, Dad gave me all his tools once he could no longer work on cars, so I found the ratchet, socket, and the appropriate extension. It had to be long enough for the ratchet to clear the cooling line just above the filter housing. It broke loose easily, but I had to finish the last few turns by hand since I needed clearance to remove the socket. I had to be careful when removing the filter from the spring-loaded mechanism that holds it onto the inside of the cap since the plastic teeth can break off. This went off without a hitch. I then lubricated and inserted the provided filter cap o-ring and mounted the new filter. The installation of the filter also went well. The kit I bought came with a 5.0l jug of Ravenol 5w/30 full synthetic motor oil that meets the VW 507.00 specification. I put in the 4.3l (4.54qt of oil and fired it up. The engine sounded quieter and smoother. I'm sure that the next one will take half the time if I don't forget by the time I reach the 10Kmi interval.

Kevin in Hillsboro, OR
2014 VW Beetle TDI Convertible, 15Kmi, Beetlejuice

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Posted by: Max temple <jasperezra@gmail.com>

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Re: [diesel_mercedes] Just do the math. OFF TOPIC.

Lawrence,

I do try to do the math before any decision. There are some factors that are hard to find, mostly efficiency and losses.

Where is the cost of elect calculated, grid costs? Different parts of the country have drastic different costs.

If this is grid costs, what are the conversion losses to the charger? Then what are the losses during charging the battery?

If you don't drive the car, what is the discharge rate? Some numbers I see are just from the car's monitors. Others are measuring power losses through each conversion. Some Tesla owners are seeing approx. 10 miles of losses for each day not driving.

Is off grid solar capable of charging the car? I expect that grid elect pricing may go to spot market rates. There are a ton of new elect cars using the grid, all wanting immediate recharges. In NH, the cost of elect passed $1.00 per KWH during the peak times. We are already maxing the power grid on many days.

Obama just signed some bill to add elect charging stations and get more municipalities to go to elect cars. I'm thinking the next "big oil" will be "big elect". Electric may be a captive customer that you can't easily use alternatives.

You may have it really good for a few years with flat rate elect rates, no spot pricing, and solar grid ties at retail rates. The US is like a game of Monopoly that lobbyists convince the public to jump into their profit plan.

I think I may buy nuclear energy and elect grid stocks and keep my Mercedes right now. I am interested if you do have measurements/calculations.

This can go off board as this is off topic.

Carl

On 7/19/2016 11:58 AM, Lawrence Rhodes primobassoon@sbcglobal.net [diesel_mercedes] wrote:

I am paying $258 a month(5 years it's mine with no interest) for the privilege of driving a new car which is smooth quiet. I spent 900 dollars to drive for 3 years(39k miles) in electricity on our first lease. It will cost $5,500.00 for a new battery in 8 to 10 years if I make past the warranty date. If not Nissan replaces the battery for free. I get in the carpool lane solo as well as reduced tolls.

I have been into the w123 vehicles as deep as any one. Put in a transmission by myself, starter, many alternators, self leveling system including a ruptured front high pressure hose as well as two rear modules, vac pump, cutoff switch, seats many fiddly bits. I also saved 25k dollars or more in fuel by running vegetable oil in more than a decade of running these wonderful machines plus 20 conversions for myself others. So I know what I'm talking about.

If you add up all the money you spent on acquisition, maintaining, fuel you will find electrics very attractive. They are also clean air vehicles which our beloved Mercedes are not. So no dirty hands time spent on my back like a whore to these ancient chariots......just do the "complete" math. I have better things to do with my time and money...but they were fun while it lasted. Lawrence Rhodes

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Posted by: Carl <diyernh@comcast.net>

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