Re: [diesel_mercedes] diesel why the cost, don't blame the tree huggers tho,, Ca. started all this with CARB

Doug:
can I ask a sort of off topic question, you being a refinery rat, as such,
regarding naphtha?

Henry

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Atkins" <mratkins@embarqmail.com>
To: <diesel_mercedes@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2011 7:51 AM
Subject: [diesel_mercedes] diesel why the cost, don't blame the tree huggers
tho,, Ca. started all this with CARB

> Doug,
>
> As a thirty year veteran of being a refinery rat I must make a couple of
> points, here.
>
> The "hydrotreating" process is essentially the SAME for naphtha stocks,
> kerosene, and Diesel fuels. This is accomplished by heating the stocks
> (at relatively lower temperatures), and passing through a cobalt (sic)
> based catalyst in the presence of hydrogen to convert and remove the
> sulfur compounds. My point here is that ALL of these components must be
> hydrotreated in order to render them useful as fuels.
>
> In order to make blend stocks for gasoline naphtha, and all other
> components, must first be separated from the crude oil charge stock,
> sulfur compounds removed by hydrotreating, and then reprocessed in a
> "reformer" type of refining process into a more suitable material of a
> higher "octane" number. This process uses MUCH higher temperatures and,
> usually, a platinum catalyst. Therefore, manufacturing "gasoline" is a
> much more costly process than manufacturing Diesel fuels as the Diesel
> is "straight run" from the crude still and simply hydrotreated while
> gasoline must be further processed after hydrotreating.
>
> Also, as you know, the sulfur compounds that remained in the Diesel
> fuels added lubricity to the fuel which is now largely gone due to the
> lower sulfur specs. That is why many add ATF, MMO, or other light oils
> to today's Diesel fuels in order to lubricate the injector pump
> internals. Tolerances in these pumps are insanely small and it does not
> take much lubrication starvation to trash one fairly quickly.
>
> I will agree that the sulfur mountains are a nuisance but that is the
> "cost" of being "green". It is a storage expense, only, for the most
> part. As for the fuel costs, Diesel should STILL be cheaper than
> gasoline and the disparity in prices occurred BEFORE the ULSD standard
> came along! Truth is, big oil knows that truckers use LOTS of fuel, must
> have it to move, and there is an increasing number of Diesel powered
> commuter vehicles being produced, so they want a BIG(est) slice of the
> "pie". Commodity traders are raking in their hogs share as well in crude
> stocks AND finished product prices! In a word, WE are being ripped off
> by ALL of them!
>
> There are answers to ALL of these "questions" and one must look no
> further than big oil AND government regulations to find ALL the answers.
>
> Mark
>
>
> On 11/2/2011 5:29 AM, Doug wrote:
>>
>> * Here is a large part of the answer as too why Diesel Fuel is so
>> much more expensive than gasoline,, we have small mountains of sulfur
>> along the ship channel here in Houston area, as per the EPA, they have
>> to refine almost all the sulfur from the Diesel fuel,too make ultra
>> low sulfur fuels,,thats very expensive, an then someone has too store
>> all that huge amount of sulfur, thats very expensive, too much of it,
>> an nothing its good for either. So, NOW we pay at the pump.*
>> **
>> * Back in the good old days of cheap Diesel fuel, all that sulfur
>> went out the tailpipe as pollution, an eventually acid rain an such,,,
>> you guys from California should remember, an know that clean air costs
>> us all money,, ya do remember CARB right, well its all over Texas too
>> now, we pay about 50 cents a gallon of Diesel for cleaner air, which
>> is rare around Houston..*
>> **
>> * My concern, being a long time Diesel Tech /Instructor, is what is
>> the long term effect upon my darling 300d s fuel system, an pistons,
>> maybe valves. Will my like new running engine still last forever with
>> the ultra low sulfur or not,, thats a good question. *
>> **
>> * So bottom line, now we are having too pay a lot extra for the ultra
>> low sulfur Diesel fuel, is it worth the cost, in cancer rate, an are
>> we loosing part of the energy in the fuel at the same time. Our
>> exhaust systems should last longer, without all the sulfuric acid
>> coming thu. *
>> **
>> * Lots of unanswered questions other than the premium cost we are
>> having to pay at the pump. I do not think there are answers to many of
>> the questions, but one thing for sure, our Mercedes engines were
>> designed to run on Diesel fuel that contained mucho sulfur, a type
>> fuel no longer available, except in maybe Mexico. *
>> * Anyone want about a million tons of raw sulfur, Texas will sell
>> it to you CHEAP, almost free, come get the stuff, makes an ugly
>> mountain here in Texas. Plus it stinks like someone eating too much
>> bean dip. *
>> * Doug Traylor 300d daily driver, 300SD carport parts queen w/
>> wunderbar turbo engine. *
>>
>

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